Broken Frame

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Brucey
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Broken Frame

Postby Brucey » 11 Jun 2013, 6:48pm

DSCF2682v3.jpg
d'oh!


has anyone seen this kind of arrangement before? I haven't.....

I am presently trying to make contact with the manufacturers to see what they think of it.

cheers
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gaz
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby gaz » 11 Jun 2013, 7:29pm

If you are querying the failure of a frame at this point then I've had a frame fail at the head tube / down tube lug.

Crack opened up on the right hand side, down the line of the joint through the middle of the lug.

I spotted it before it developped all the way around and returned it for repair under it's lifetime guarantee. The frame builder made no comment on the reasons for the failure and I was happy to accept the repair.

On the other hand if you are querying the apparent use of the lug to seat the headset race rather than the head tube then I've never seen the like of it.
2020 : To redundancy ... and beyond!

reohn2
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby reohn2 » 11 Jun 2013, 11:12pm

0.9 to 1.0mm in such a high stress area :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Brucey
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby Brucey » 12 Jun 2013, 12:04pm

reohn2 wrote:.9 to 1.0mm in such a high stress area :shock: :shock: :shock:


Well that was my thought too; and the lower part of the lug that has (I think) started the failure wasn't even connected to the head tube, as the down tube socket overlaps the top of the head race.

To cap it all, (and as you might have guessed) the down tube wasn't mitred correctly, and was barely touching the head tube at one spot only, leaving the lug to do all the work there, too.

If this were a cheap and nasty bike, I'd think 'well that is what I ought to expect, really'. If it were decades old and had seen many miles of (ab-) use, or had been pranged, I'd think yes, I guess its time had come. But here's the thing; it isn't a cheap and nasty bike, and it isn't any of the other things. either.

I'm hoping that the manufacturer will do the right thing and (warranty or not) admit that they screwed up here when they let this out of the factory.

Any advice or comments welcome.

cheers
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Vantage
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby Vantage » 12 Jun 2013, 12:27pm

Is there any possibility that the owner might have "doctored" the head tube to get a lower front end?
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mig
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby mig » 12 Jun 2013, 12:49pm

who are the manufacturers?

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Mick F
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby Mick F » 12 Jun 2013, 2:16pm

Why is it rusty if it's not decades old?
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breakwellmz
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby breakwellmz » 12 Jun 2013, 2:18pm

That`s awful,what a piece of ****!

Cheap`stress raiser`lugs AND no tube mitering(?).

I LOOKS ancient,but it`s not,you say?

Was the lug brazed to a headtube cut away at the back then?

How about a side view Brucey?

Valbrona
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby Valbrona » 12 Jun 2013, 2:49pm

Is this how you botch-fit an 1 1/8" set of forks to a frame that was originally built to take forks with a 1" steerer?
I should coco.

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531colin
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby 531colin » 12 Jun 2013, 3:35pm

It does seem a weird thing to do.
If they are not doing it to use up old stock (of something-or-other) then why else?

Brucey
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby Brucey » 12 Jun 2013, 7:10pm

the steerer is 1" threaded, the head tube is standard diameter; the headset is obviously an oddball one, but is the original one fitted to the frame. It does use larger diameter balls than most other 1" headsets I have encountered.

The frame hasn't been tampered with or modified in any way.

The corrosion looks a lot worse in the photo than it really is, and is superficial corrosion from the flux residue, I think. Having looked inside quite a few frames, I'd say it is not remotely exceptional. Little if any of the fracture face was corroded in any way.

The frame was conventionally brazed, having been drilled and pinned in the traditional fashion. The brazing looks fine, but it obviously couldn't join parts that were never going to come close to actually touching one another.

I have contacted the manufacturer, (who do have a reputation for a premium product that they would like to preserve, I would suppose.... ) and I have not yet heard back from them, which is disappointing in its own right. If I don't hear back from them soon I shall be naming and shaming.

cheers
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Brucey
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby Brucey » 12 Jun 2013, 7:14pm

IrishBill76 wrote:Is there any possibility that the owner might have "doctored" the head tube to get a lower front end?


No; in fact you can see the overspay from the original paint job, now on the outside of the lower head race; the paint stuck to the head race rather than the head lug when the head lug broke away.

cheers
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531colin
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby 531colin » 12 Jun 2013, 10:53pm

Brucey wrote:the steerer is 1" threaded, the head tube is standard diameter; the headset is obviously an oddball one, but is the original one fitted to the frame. It does use larger diameter balls than most other 1" headsets I have encountered..................


So, standard size tubing and lugs, with an "oversize" headset shoehorned in.....weird.
......even weirder, this is important enough that its worth prejudicing the strength of the frame?

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gentlegreen
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby gentlegreen » 13 Jun 2013, 12:43am

Mick F wrote:Why is it rusty if it's not decades old?

Yes - however inadequate the construction it looks like rust damage at the bottom maybe initiated the failure process.

Brucey
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Re: Broken Frame

Postby Brucey » 13 Jun 2013, 3:44am

gentlegreen wrote:
Mick F wrote:Why is it rusty if it's not decades old?

Yes - however inadequate the construction it looks like rust damage at the bottom maybe initiated the failure process.


if this amount of corrosion bothers you, I suggest that you don't look inside the joints of any bike frames that you might want to ride again. Very many of them are like this, especially if the flux residue has not been fully removed. You won't get this particular view unless the frame breaks, but some superficial corrosion is quite normal. I normally run some waxoyl into a frame when I get the chance, but this bike hasn't even worn out its first (cheap, unsealed) cartridge BB unit, and there are no bottle bosses, so the opportunity has not arisen. Had the corrosion been active in any way, more of the fracture face would have been corroded.

Of course the fact that the parts supporting the headset were less than half as thick as they should have been had nothing to do with it...?. :roll:

cheers
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