What Grant Peterson Says about Bike Shoes.....

[Brucey]

... Much better to have variability, that and the fact they make no/little difference is one of the reasons I gave up using spuds...

well I think you will find that many folk will vehemently dispute that they make little or no difference; I think it depends on how you pedal. Whilst I will happily ride a few miles (or walk a few miles come to that) with any old shoes on for longer rides proper shoes are just better.

With any old shoes on I can pedal at a moderate speed with moderate force for a moderate period of time and if I'm pootling from A to B that is just fine. And that might apply for 90% of the time on many rides. But if I want to pedal very quickly, or very powerfully, or better stay in control offroad when eyeballs out, or climb an alpine pass, or ride for a long period of time without discomfort or fatigue then I'll have my cycling shoes thank you.

Maybe there are people out there who go just as fast, just as comfy, just as far with any old shoes on but I've never met one; you get to the 'other 10%' (or whatever it is) of the ride and IME they suddenly conk out.

cheers

[kwackers]

Maybe there are people out there who go just as fast, just as comfy, just as far with any old shoes on but I've never met one; you get to the 'other 10%' (or whatever it is) of the ride and IME they suddenly conk out.

cheers

And yet all attempts to quantify this 'gain' have never shown anything? Why is that?

Where does this magical extra power come from? I'm not denying you can get an 'extra spurt' over a short distance, but long term it doesn't add up.

Wearing boots/trainers etc I can average just shy of 20mph over 40 miles or so - on a heayy tourer with dynamo lights (switched on), draggy puncture resistant tyres and panniers. How much faster would I be with shoes and spuds?

Turns out that when I used to commute that distance regularly I used to switch and make notes and I found they made not a jot of difference, tested over several months.

I'm sure like a lot of these things there are advocates that will be convinced they can tell the difference but I'm waiting to see anything that resembles science that shows an improvement for the sort of mid distance commuting I do.

[Brucey]

Maybe there are people out there who go just as fast, just as comfy, just as far with any old shoes on but I've never met one; you get to the 'other 10%' (or whatever it is) of the ride and IME they suddenly conk out.

cheers

And yet all attempts to quantify this 'gain' have never shown anything? Why is that?

Where does this magical extra power come from? I'm not denying you can get an 'extra spurt' over a short distance, but long term it doesn't add up.

your rides may be '0%' rides, i.e. you ride at a portion of your aerobic threshold and this is always well within the capacity of your normal pedalling muscles e.g. because your legs are strong, or you don't ride that far, that fast, or something. You can maybe ride tempo all day like that with clogs or flip-flops on for all I know, but I can't (say) convincing/efficiently use any significant part of my anaerobic capacity unless I'm clipped in, and nor can anyone else I know. If your rides are 0% anaerobic effort then yeah you don't need to be clipped in, but even when I rode a lot of touring miles like that it went a load better in flat soled cycling shoes (my feet hurt otherwise) and I climbed 'proper climbs' (steep or several hours long) strapped in 'cause it was better. Being clipped in allows you to vary your pedal stroke and so mitigates the local muscular fatigue on long climbs. This (say) helped to make the difference between being able to knock off 100-miles days for weeks on end in the mountains and not.

YMMV, but whilst being clipped in/wearing cycling shoes doesn't always make a difference, that is not at all the same thing as always not making a difference.

cheers

[Dynamite_funk]

And no one has even mentioned the power gain on the upstroke yet

Or is that all a lie too??

[AndyB]

And no one has even mentioned the power gain on the upstroke yet

Or is that all a lie too??

Well... As it happens I forgot to change back into my cycling shoes for the ride home from work on Wednesday. I ride a fixed wheel bike for the commute. All was fine, until the hill into the village. I just could not get up it - had to walk. I've never failed to ride up it while clipped in. As Brucey says - 95% of the time it makes no difference, but sometimes...

[kwackers]

And no one has even mentioned the power gain on the upstroke yet

Or is that all a lie too??

You can get short bursts of power from the upstroke. But you still can't exceed your normal 'power' generation - regardless of how you do it.
Use more energy feeding two sets of muscles instead of one and you'll simply run out faster.

People have tried to demonstrate this apparent boost in power and nobody has done it. IMO it's magic hats all over again. If you feel they work then fine but for those like me that try them, persevere and wonder if anything is happening then it's good to know you're not alone.

[Brucey]

if you are just tapping along I don't think it makes a big difference. (If it did I've never ride anywhere without being clipped in). But when you are not just tapping along it makes all the difference.

When I could be bothered to measure it I could produce about 350 or 400W for an hour or so. For shorter periods of time, more than that. For the 'more than that' bits you definitely need to be strapped in....

cheers

[andrewjoseph]

When you've had a Guy with one leg pass on an mtb pass you on a rocky rooty climb, then you'll believe you can developed power on the upstroke. It may not be much and it may not be for long, but a one legged person can't get up rough stuff by just using the down stroke.

[meic]

I have my cleats set as weak as possible, they are more to keep my feet in place than to produce power on the upstroke.

On a few occasions when I have decided to "whizz" I have pulled out of them, so I must have been doing some pulling up.

Pulling up isnt what I am after though, it is more about being able to turn the cranks through a greater angle (without applying pressure to keep them in place,) rather than just pushing down or making an effort to hold the feet in place.

That in turn means not having continual pressure on the soles of my feet, which after 100 miles or less saves quite some discomfort.

[Jughead]

Here, a hatchet would be an excellent addition if you cycle camp as often as moi. Seriously, the times I've needed an axe: chopping wood, tent pegs, noisy dickheads in the next tent, etc...
Look, I don't agree with everything he spouts but what a refreshing view on loads of stuff. Loads of people don't agree with his stance on shoes. I do. I tend to buy most books on cycling. His approach was different and I really welcomed the have a go at the bike myths. Worth a read.

[Sweep]

ditto here jughead.

I came across the book in of all places a shop mostly serving (for economic reasons maybe) racers - I found it very refreshing, Dispels a few myths which keep some forums (not this one) going.