Reynolds stickers?

[Dynamite_funk]

Hello everyone. Nearly finished hand lining the lugs on my Henry Burton and it's looking great! Next job is to attach the new old style decals from HB and varnish. One thing I am unsure of though is whether reynolds (particualrly 531ST) stickers would have historically been attached before, or after the varnishing of the frame? I'm not bothered which to be honest but getting it done 'right' would be good. Any answers would be great

[Brucey]

it depends on the transfer you use, there are several different types. If you look on the H Lloyd website there is an explanatory note re this point.

cheers

[AlbionLass]

I don't know about vintage transfers but the modern Reynolds logos are stickers that go on the frame once it's finished. (They are inclined to come off.)

[pete75]

Hello everyone. Nearly finished hand lining the lugs on my Henry Burton and it's looking great! Next job is to attach the new old style decals from HB and varnish. One thing I am unsure of though is whether reynolds (particualrly 531ST) stickers would have historically been attached before, or after the varnishing of the frame? I'm not bothered which to be honest but getting it done 'right' would be good. Any answers would be great

I've put Reynolds "stickers" from H H Lloyd onto a couple of frames, before lacquering in each case and they're still good.

[broadway]

A bit about Henry Burton here: http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 00ab4c8508

A photo of the frame might help in deciding if Reynolds transfers are appropriate.

[Dynamite_funk]

I wasn't asking if they were appropriate, I was asking if the general consensus was to apply them after varnishing or not. The bike came with 531ST stickers on; the 27.0mm inside seat tube diameter confirms this. But as you asked...

Apologies for not photographing 'the proper way' with cranks on the outside


Called Henry Burton and they believe it is a late 70s but they have no records at all (a real shame) unfortunately the 531ST sticker didn't come into production until 1982 (According H Lloyds website anyway),so I'm guessing this is when the frame was made (or soon thereafter). Here is a close up of the lugs which are quite nice. I wasn’t happy with my paint brush finish so scrubbed the lot off and re did with a lining tool.

Henry B lugs

All the equipment was mid to late 70s suntour stuff and it had had a respray, it was a much paler blue silver underneath it all. It also actually came 2nd hand from Ireland, the mystery deepens!

Edit: I missed out letters here n there!

[AlbionLass]

I know that Bob Jackson apply them on top of the final coat as stickers rather than under the varnish.

[pete75]

I know that Bob Jackson apply them on top of the final coat as stickers rather than under the varnish.

Really?

Read steps 7 & 8 on this page http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/resprays.php

[Brucey]

I'm not at all sure that a 27.0mm seat pin should be relied upon as evidence of 531ST being used. An ST transfer on a resprayed frame means next to nothing.

You can tell if it is an ST tubeset by looking at the steerer tube. If it is seamless internally, not of absurd wall thickenss at the base and marked 'Reynolds Butted Tube' externally (which will be hard to spot) then it most likely isn't an ST tubeset. The ST tubeset normally came with an unstamped steerer of prodigous wall thickenss at the bottom, having an obvious internal seam. Despite the increased wall thickness I have no evidence that it was in any way stronger; quite the reverse in fact.

The rear stays are also different on an ST tubeset.

Before ST good builders would use the right tubes for the job and then you would have a 531DB transfer on the frame. Similar looking frames could vary in weight by 1/2lb, 1lb (or more) depending on tube specs and intended use. The weight of your frame should tell you what kind of build it is, better than any sticker on a respray ever will.

cheers

[AlbionLass]

I know that Bob Jackson apply them on top of the final coat as stickers rather than under the varnish.

Really?

Read steps 7 & 8 on this page http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/resprays.php

Yes really, I've just had a frame resprayed by them and went through the process in detail with a member of staff and specifically asked about the Reynolds 631 logos as they had peeled off my 2 year old Bob Jackson frame in one area (my fault) and was told that they are slightly more prone to lifting as they apply them right at the end on top of the last coat. This is in contrast to their own transfers which do indeed go on under the final varnish coat as they say on their website.
They did a fabulous job of my respray which I only needed because I wanted a change of colour.

[Dynamite_funk]

No scales in the house I'm afraid and I totally agree with you on the respray thing. When you say seam, do you mean vertical or horizontal? In any event, it has very nice forged rear drops with adjuster screws and the work on it is top notch. What is it about the stays which would set it apart? Will endevour to weigh the thing when I get chance, until then more questions than answers!

[Brucey]

the seam in the later steerer is a vertical remnant and is visible inside the lower section. The same steerer is used in some other 531 tubesets of the time e.g. 531C, so it dates a frame as being after about 1982 or 1983 if it is present. However the earlier steerer did crop up in some later frames so this one isn't conclusive evidence of a particular date.

The rear stays on 531ST were 0.9mm wall thickness vs 0.5mm/0.8mm wall thickness on 531C. At one time I think there were different diameters available also. There were also different fork blade profiles/thicknesses too I think; ST forks are 1.2/0.8mm and 531C 1.0/0.5mm.

A typical 531DB (or 531C) frame and fork in 22 1/2" frame size is about 6lbs, of which 1.5lbs is the fork weight. ST frames are heavier, obviously.

cheers

[JonMcD]

I made the mistake of wiping down an old 70's Witcomb frame with a rag dampened with white spirit. I was horrified to find the Reynolds decal sliding around with the cloth, tearing in the process. It was a very thin decal that I assume was some kind of water slide transfer applied without any further protection.

[Dynamite_funk]

Measuring wall thickness on the rear stays may be tricky, unless I'm mising something?

Frame is 23 1/2" weighs 4lb 4oz on a set of fishing scales my dad lent me. Forks weight in at 1lb 12oz. This is roughly as it is only marked in 4oz

It has canti bosses, hence my thoughts (along with teh 531ST sticker) that it was a 531ST frame

[Brucey]

Rear stay walls are not easy to measure but if there are breather holes in them, that can sometimes give you a clue, provided you can tell where the burr ends and the tube begins.

If your scales are accurate, I'd say that the fork may be a heavy duty one but the frame is quite lightweight. I'd expect an ST frame to be a bit heavier than that.

BTW plenty of fairly 'gappy' older lightweight frames have been given canti bosses before now, not to mention CX bikes and the like. So cantis don't automatically signify a heavy duty tourer. In fact Mafac cantis are pretty near the lightest weight brakes you can get IIRC.

cheers