Hub gear ideas

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SA_SA_SA
Posts: 1889
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby SA_SA_SA » 27 Jun 2020, 10:08pm

Brucey wrote:IMHO the shimano hub is hampered for heavy duty use by the steel hubshell. It does make it more difficult to build a decent wheel.

cheers

Do washers not help (my AW has a steel shell) although I suppose machine built wheels will not bother?

Out of curiosity, which would you pick if only given the choice of a roller brake vs a rear disc? :)
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Brucey
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby Brucey » 28 Jun 2020, 2:17am

you can build a reliable wheel with a steel shell but it is best if it is a used hubshell (which will already have 'bruised' flanges which will be kinder to the spoke elbows) and you need to use spoke washers, often two on each spoke.

That you can't build a good wheel on a steel hub using 'brute force' tactics was nicely illustrated for me by seeing a rack of Ofu bikes a while back; all the rear wheels built onto shimano IGHs had plenty of broken spokes, broken at the elbow even though they were reasonable quality stainless steel 13G spokes.

Choice between roller brake and disc brake? Hmmm. On a utility bike? Honestly...? Even though I don't really like them, I'd sooner have a coaster brake than either. And of course a SA drum brake in preference to any; I think well enough of SA (and in the past Sachs/SRAM) drum brakes that I am prepared to do battle with some of the failings of the IGHs that come attached to them.

cheers
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SA_SA_SA
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby SA_SA_SA » 29 Jun 2020, 10:01pm

Brucey wrote:.....Choice between roller brake and disc brake? Hmmm. On a utility bike? Honestly...? Even though I don't really like them, I'd sooner have a coaster brake than either. And of course a SA drum brake in preference to any....

What about a combined Commuter/Tourer or even just a plain tourer though .....:)
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Brucey
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby Brucey » 29 Jun 2020, 11:31pm

SA_SA_SA wrote:
Brucey wrote:.....Choice between roller brake and disc brake? Hmmm. On a utility bike? Honestly...? Even though I don't really like them, I'd sooner have a coaster brake than either. And of course a SA drum brake in preference to any....

What about a combined Commuter/Tourer or even just a plain tourer though .....:)


Still SA drum brake; they do two models which use derailleur gears.

cheers
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fausto99
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby fausto99 » 30 Jun 2020, 10:28am

SA_SA_SA wrote:Do washers not help (my AW has a steel shell) although I suppose machine built wheels will not bother?

I did not see any marks from a previous build on my TC 2 speed. I opted for two washers on the outside, one on the inside. Had to get thick "form G" washers to get an adequate spacing.
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SA_SA_SA
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby SA_SA_SA » 30 Jun 2020, 2:42pm

Brucey wrote:
'.....Choice between roller brake and disc brake? ...... a combined Commuter/Tourer or even just a plain tourer though .....'

Still SA drum brake; they do two models which use derailleur gears.
...

It was a hypothetical binary choice :) between roller and disc.... as if SA hubs were unavail......
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Brucey
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby Brucey » 1 Jul 2020, 7:59am

its a bit like asking whether I'd prefer to bang nails into my left leg or my right....?

cheers
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SA_SA_SA
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby SA_SA_SA » 1 Jul 2020, 10:34pm

Brucey wrote:its a bit like asking whether I'd prefer to bang nails into my left leg or my right....?

Ahh,you want neither....
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SA_SA_SA
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby SA_SA_SA » 2 Jul 2020, 7:16pm

Would a dishless X-RD wheel in 135 OLN dropouts have enough axle thread on the left to allow a CarryFreedom trailer L-bracket? ( I seem to remember my old Nottingham Summit RD (175 mm axle) didn't )
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Brucey
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby Brucey » 2 Jul 2020, 7:26pm

probably not.

Mad thoughts;

1) could the axle be reversed?

2) would another axle work; there are other axles which have 10mm seats for cartridge bearings, but the shoulders might not be the correct separation and you might have to modify the brake parts for a 3/8" thread etc

cheers
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krull
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby krull » 2 Jul 2020, 10:26pm

Elizabethsdad wrote:I can highly recommend the Alfine 8. I have found it's range to be wide enough but if was going to extend it I'd fit a Schlumpf drive.


If you can get one in the UK. The last time I looked they were £600-700. You might as well get a Rohloff?

MartinC
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby MartinC » 3 Jul 2020, 4:23pm

krull wrote:If you can get one in the UK. The last time I looked they were £600-700. You might as well get a Rohloff?


Wow! I gave one away about a month ago (it was to a good cause). I hated it. Always riding in 2 or 3 stage gears, irregular gaps, treacly roller clutches. The Nexus 7 is a pleasanter hub to ride.

Brucey
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby Brucey » 3 Jul 2020, 6:54pm

MartinC wrote:
krull wrote:If you can get one (Alfine 8) in the UK. The last time I looked they were £600-700. You might as well get a Rohloff?


Wow! I gave one away about a month ago (it was to a good cause). I hated it. Always riding in 2 or 3 stage gears, irregular gaps, treacly roller clutches. The Nexus 7 is a pleasanter hub to ride.


I agree that for some riders the spongy feeling of the roller clutches and the gear intervals are real hurdles. I have eventually concluded that (for myself) I am prepared to put up with one or the other, and in fact for me uneven gear intervals are preferable to spongy feelings when I push on the pedals. Of the shimano multi-speed hubs I have ridden I agree Nexus 7 feels the most direct, and the gear intervals are better than A-8 but even so I know it is draggy in the most used gears.

Older N8 (and some older A8) hubs use fewer roller clutches and these can feel better than later models. Alfine 11 hubs have even gear intervals and are spongy in many gears; 'treacly' is a good adjective. There are 3-stage gear ratios in A-11 but not in A-8; there are only two gear stages in A-8 hubs. However in both hubs there are gears which use multiple roller clutches and if/when these add sponginess it can feel like there are more than two gear stages.

For decades I have ridden most IGH miles on various types of obsolete SA hub and I have gravitated to using them mostly in the direct drive ratios and accept that I will take a hit on efficiency at other times. The hubs still feel direct in any of the gears because they use pawls. I have spent a lot of time and money trying other IGHs and it has been very interesting but when the dust has settled, few of the alternatives have all that much appeal to me. If you want a direct feeling hub which isn't perfectly efficient and has more than a few gears I guess it is a toss-up between Nexus 7 and SA 8s hubs, (or Sachs/SRAM 7s hubs if you are prepared to use something with limited parts back-up and a few quirks). Most IGHs (including Rohloff) have various quirks, I guess it is a question of what you are prepared to accept in return for the benefits on offer.

FWIW Alfine 8 hubs are listed by Bikester for ~£135 in 32h but not 36h . OK they are not in the UK even though they have a .uk web address. But £600 or £700....? Crayzee money...

cheers
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rotavator
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby rotavator » 3 Jul 2020, 9:22pm

[quote="Brucey"][ But £600 or £700....? Crayzee money...

I thought that was for the Schlumpf drive, possibly with the Alfine hub. At least that is the way I read it.

Brucey
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Re: Hub gear ideas

Postby Brucey » 3 Jul 2020, 9:44pm

rotavator wrote:
Brucey wrote:[ But £600 or £700....? Crayzee money...

I thought that was for the Schlumpf drive, possibly with the Alfine hub. At least that is the way I read it.


that does make more sense! :lol:

But it is indeed difficult to find an Alfine 8 hub to buy in the UK at present too.

cheers
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