So, you're building a Surly....

[Godlykepower]

Not sure if this is in the right place, apologies if it isn't.

I am about to embark on a winter project of building up a dream bike, one that will in theory last me for years to come.

I have finally settled on a Surly, after eventually whittling down a list I had that contained all the names you would expect on a touring bike wish list.

Anyhow, it is a Surly I am going with, but I can't quite decide on how to run with the spec.
I can't decide to go with the Disc Trucker or a tried and tested Long Haul Trucker.

I will be building this bike up over a number of months, so let's assume that money is not really a problem, I will pay whatever I have to, to end up with a dream ride.

As much as I would like to say it will be used for a RTW trip - perhaps one day, but for now year round use and loaded week trips away.

Why would I choose one model over another? What are the pros and cons of each?
If I went LHT, it would be V-brakes, if Disc Trucker, BB7's.
With regards to wheel size, I plan on 700's because 26" wheels look a bit weird on 58cm Surly's.
Apart from getting spares in remote places, is there any other reason to choose one wheel size over another?

I have never ridden with bar end shifters before, do they work just like MTB thumb shifters? i.e. Do they "click" into position for every gear change, or do they just move freely?

What other reasons would you give that I would choose one model over the other?

[mark a.]

Having ridden neither:

I'd go with discs every time nowadays. 700c wheels, too.

Bar-end shifters are fine. Mine (on a Surly Cross-Check) index clicked, but you could run them on non-click (friction mode) if you liked. However, I'd certainly consider STIs - I converted to Tiagra 9-speed triple and they've been fine, but not a huge difference to the bar-ends to be honest.

Edit for clarity: My Cross-Check has canti brakes, not discs, so the transition to STI gears was ok. I can't remember what the latest options are for the combination of BB7s, STIs and triple chainrings.

[Godlykepower]

I'm edging more towards the 700/Disc option already, I just need to get this 100% right before starting out!

As I said, I've never ridden with bar end shifters, but I have (many years ago) ridden with STI's and I absolutely loved them.

Why are STI's not used on touring bikes though? Are they less reliable or inferior in some other way?
Would they be suitable for the intended use I envision for this bike, do you think?

Edit: just seen your edit. The Genesis Croix de Fer uses Tiagra 9 speed STI's and BB7's, so it must be okay.

[Brucey]

I would suggest that you take a long hard look at how much laden vs unladen riding you are going to do. Then ask yourself if you are a big guy riding a big frame or a smaller, lighter guy riding a smaller frame.

If you are doing mostly loaded riding and/or you are a big guy then a trucker isn't a bad frame to start with. But if you are going to ride unladen most of the time and/or you are riding a smaller frame I would suggest that the trucker might be a tad uncomfy and plank-like for day-to-day riding, even if it is up to RTW stuff.

Disc brakes add weight all the time which isn't that welcome for unladen riding either. Very often they are attached to somewhat stiffer forks etc, too. Again if you are mostly riding laden arguably neither thing is a big deal.

However, you can have durable rims that won't wear out by buying ceramic coated ones if you want; it is still a very viable choice.

BTW with bar end shifters the RH shifter can be indexed but the LH one generally isn't.

cheers

[horizon]

Personally, I would go for 26" wheels, bar end shifters and V brakes. That would be on account of robustness, familiarity, and simplicity. I am currently looking at 26" wheel frames and that would be my choice (e.g. on a Thorn Sherpa or indeed on a Surly). The only argument I would put forward however is that having bought a heavy, simple, robust, load carrying bike you might as well go the whole hog and keep it as simple, robust and load carrying as possible. But your cycling might be lighter and in the UK on good roads, you might not get on with bar ends and you might already know about discs. So that would determine your choice. You certainly can't go wrong whatever you choose.

[stewartpratt]

If I was going to the back of beyond I'd consider cantis, but otherwise, discs all the way.

Bar end shifters are, IME, lovely in all ways except for one: the cables have to go somewhere, and that's either all the way up the bars under the tape (which was what I did with mine, but it feels odd when you're in the drops) or you take them out ouf the tape partway up the drop (which seems entirely abhorrent to my hands).

STIs are indeed less reliable, less robust, and can't be run in friction mode should you need it. But I'd still have them on a tourer that wasn't going to see anything too remote or rugged. For European road touring I'd say they're absolutely fine. YMMV.

Consider the TRP Spyre as well as the BB7.

(I used to have a 700c LHT, by the way.)

[Godlykepower]

Thanks so far guys.

Brucey, I am a big, heavy guy. My days of whizzing around on carbon fibre road bikes ended a long time ago. I am quite happy to plod along and occasionally wind it up a bit, but I'm not bothered about the bike weighing a bit more.

[stewartpratt]

FWIW I sold my LHT to someone shorter and older than me, and he loved it. The following year he did the Etape on it and attracted plenty of mockery from the carbon crowd at the start line, and then he passed plenty of them. The LHT might handle in a slightly leisurely fashion compared to a "road bike", but it can still crack on quite happily if you need it to.

By the way, have you considered the Straggler?

[Godlykepower]

By the way, have you considered the Straggler?

What is a Straggler?!

Edit: scrap that, just looked it up. Don't go there....just don't! The Straggler looks like a Genesis Croix de Fer, which I seriously, seriously fancy.

[stewartpratt]

Edit: scrap that, just looked it up. Don't go there....just don't! The Straggler looks like a Genesis Croix de Fer, which I seriously, seriously fancy.

They have quite different geometry (notably, at least for me, the Surly frames have much slacker seat angles than the Genesis).

[stewartpratt]

Oh, and in that case you may also want to sniff round the All-City Macho Man Disc and the Soma Double Cross Disc

[Brucey]

I mostly ride bikes that are not that lightweight these days but I stil enjoy riding lightweight ones when I can, even though I'm not going ' very fast' or anything. You can indeed live with a little extra weight...

But the other part of the equation is comfort. If you are going to ride fat tyres all the time then comfort will likely be OK on anything. But if you are riding 32-35mm tyres or less then the frame and fork stiffness start to have a bigger say in matters comfort, 'specially if you don't have a load on. Not everybody gets troubled in quite the same way but I tend to keep thinking about my nice springy forks on my other bike after a few miles on an unladen heavy-duty touring bike.... but maybe that is just me; I don't think I shall ever have a 'one bike for everything' then...

cheers

[al_yrpal]

My Salsa Vaya has disc brakes which add a few ounces to the overall weight of the bike. I have had several tourers with cable operated discs and wouldnt be without them. They stop better and are dead simple to set up and maintain. Wet muddy places are simply no longer a problem. The Vaya has bar end shifters, they are a bit less high tech but I do like their simplicity and trouble free operation. I dont find the cables under the bar tape any problem. To me, simplicity is very valuable on a tourer. The Vaya has 29er rims, on 37mm tyres the cope quite well with light off road. I think the Surley Disc Trucker is a more substantial frame, whereas with my 15 stone and 16 kg of bar bag and panniers the Vaya is approaching the limit of its safe carrying capacity.

Al

[irc]

I have a 60cm 700c rim brake Trucker. Can't fault the handling. Like Brucey says it is a stiff frame so not ideal unloaded for lighter riders but for me at 16 or 17 stone it rides OK unloaded. The steering is stable and predictable at all speeds loaded or unloaded. Never a trace of flex or shimmy under load. Last time I was away it managed to carry a 25kg bag of coal on the rear rack for a few miles back to the hostel with no drama ( Tubus Cargo rear rack).

If I was buying it now I'd still go for V brakes. I have BB7s on a MTB. Good brakes but V brakes are easier to set up and work well enough for me. The only time I'd go for disc brakes might be if I was anticipating much use on gravel roads in wet weather. But either discs or Vs work. Personal choice.

[horizon]

There's a few interesting points on here:

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index ... 71629.html

While we're about it, does anyone know the difference(s) between the 700c and 26" frames? Is it just the position of the brake pivots? I know the size changes over the range but for frames with both options, anything else?