Dural 'v' Zicral

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reohn2
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by reohn2 »

jb wrote:Chain cleaners - a salesman's dream, they make the outside shiny nice whilst pushing all the grit inside. Their also good at replacing the chain lubricant with chain cleaner which then takes a couple of rides to be replaced with oil.

As a rough test, If you twist a chain between for-finger and thumb a clean chain will be silent, a still contaminated dry chain will crackle.


I disagree,cleaning a not too mucky chain with a chain scrubber does get it clean and the twist/bend test proves it,if it crackles I run it through the scrubber a second time with clean WS which is seldom needed.

Ether take them off & clean them regularly, or apply oil often & leave them alone letting the dirt sit harmlessly on the outside.

But it doesn't sit harlessly on the surface it get ground up between rollers and cogs/chainrings,that's why I try to keep chains clean.
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jb
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by jb »

reohn2 wrote:
I disagree,cleaning a not too mucky chain with a chain scrubber does get it clean and the twist/bend test proves it,if it crackles I run it through the scrubber a second time with clean WS which is seldom needed.


But a chain cleaner is supposed to be quick and convenient. When I've emptied and refilled them enough times to get the fluid to stay clean I may as well have taken the chain off for all its saved. Plus the brushes encourage dirt to be swept into the links.

Never cleaning a chain isn't ideal but its better than half cleaning it IMO. So much depends on the conditions of where & what your riding through though that its difficult to come to firm conclusions on the matter. I change my mind on chain maintenance quite a lot.
Cheers
J Bro
reohn2
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by reohn2 »

jb wrote:But a chain cleaner is supposed to be quick and convenient. When I've emptied and refilled them enough times to get the fluid to stay clean I may as well have taken the chain off for all its saved.

I have to disagree again,I find one filling of the scrubber bath is usually enough,followed by a filling and run through with hot water/washing up liquid to rinse,run the chain through a dry rag,then relube with TF2.
The whole operation usually takes about five minutes,tops.
Plus the brushes encourage dirt to be swept into the links.

I'm disagreeing again.

Never cleaning a chain isn't ideal but its better than half cleaning it IMO

I never half cleaned anything :wink: .
. So much depends on the conditions of where & what your riding through though that its difficult to come to firm conclusions on the matter.

The weather/road/track/bridleway,etc plays the most part IMO.

I change my mind on chain maintenance quite a lot.

I've tried a few different solvents,Gunk,Jizer,petrol,diesel but White Spirit(WS) has been my favourite for quite a while.It's clean to handle doesn't stink and I can filter it,let it settle,decant off the clean WS and reuse over and over again.
I've also recently tried Astonish* engine degreaser but only a couple of times,it's better than WS and I suspect I can filter and reuse,though haven't tried that yet.

* http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200824525632? ... 1497.l2649
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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jb
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by jb »

reohn2......

What sort of cleaning gadget are you using? The last one I used swelled up when I started using paraffin.

I may have another go with white spirit cos its certainly a pain at this time of year.
Cheers
J Bro
reohn2
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by reohn2 »

jb wrote:What sort of cleaning gadget are you using? The last one I used swelled up when I started using paraffin.

I use one of these:- http://weldtite.co.uk/products/detail/d ... er-machine
which I bought from Halfords some 12 to 15years ago and TBH is looking a bit worn these days :(
For a quick clean on a not so dirty chain it's ideal.
I've never used paraffin,petrol or diesel in one as it's plastic and I'm afraid of melting it.
If the chain is really mucky from exceptionally bad conditions(which usually means the cassette and chainrings are gunged up too) I remove the chain and use the shake method in a jar 1/3 full of WS and clean the cogs and chainrings with Astonish* degreaser, I used to use Muck off but the price has become a bit daft in recent years.
When I've used Astonish in the chainscrubber the chain is noticably shinier than if I use WS.
Note:- I've also noticed that Astonish* is very kind to hands and feels slippery,like soap,when it comes in contact,most degreasers dry out skin fast,it also doesn't crinkle rubber Marigold type gloves like WS does.

I may have another go with white spirit cos its certainly a pain at this time of year.

I've no complaints about WS and have used it for degreasing for years,cheap and reusable over and over if filtered and allowed to settle then decanted off.Waste is minimal,as I said upthread I'll try the same reusable system with Astonish* and see how it goes,others on here have done the same with other degreasers such as Gunk.

*I've no connection with the Astonish brand other than finding it cheap and a very good product IME.
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Brucey
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by Brucey »

I think if the degreaser is clean, effective, and penetrates the chain 100%, then cleaning gadgets can work quite well.

The problem is that normally you don't score 3/3 on these things.

If you put fresh fluid in one, to clean an already 'clean' chain, it is rare to see it stay the same colour.

I've not tried astonish; however please note that many alkalis -even some quite strong ones- can feel 'soft' on the skin in use. Very often this is because they are dissolving it; if it says 'avoid skin contact', I would do.

cheers
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reohn2
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by reohn2 »

Brucey wrote:I think if the degreaser is clean, effective, and penetrates the chain 100%, then cleaning gadgets can work quite well.

The problem is that normally you don't score 3/3 on these things.

If you put fresh fluid in one, to clean an already 'clean' chain, it is rare to see it stay the same colour.

I've tried this in the past as a test you to run the chain through few cyles the get clean solvent after a wash.

I've not tried astonish; however please note that many alkalis -even some quite strong ones- can feel 'soft' on the skin in use. Very often this is because they are dissolving it; if it says 'avoid skin contact', I would do.

cheers

I wasn't advocating using it to wash with :shock: ,just a mention in passing that it doesn't seem as harsh as say WS is.
BTW the bottle does warn against skin contact :roll: .
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niggle
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by niggle »

To bring the thread back on topic, I have decided to replace the Sora middle ring as it is a little noisy running with the new Campag C9 chain, which I don't want to ruin by running it on a worn chain ring (I have only test ridden it up and down my street). So is the general opinion that Dural lasts about half as long as Zicral? If so the £10 Dural ring sounds like the better option compared to the £22 Zicral, from Spa Cycles.
Brucey
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by Brucey »

does noisy running on a slightly worn chainring cause rapid wear?

If so, is it likely to be on the rollers rather than the pins?

cheers
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byegad
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by byegad »

I said earlier in the thread that that was my experience. It's very rough and not a lot to choose between then money wise..... I use Zircal so I don't need to replace the rings so often, the time saved is therefore a plus for me.
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niggle
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by niggle »

Brucey wrote:does noisy running on a slightly worn chainring cause rapid wear?

If so, is it likely to be on the rollers rather than the pins?

cheers

I would think it would indicate the potential for rapid wear, and I really don't want to take the chance in view of the potential cost and inconvenience, plus there is the annoyance factor. However I would not like to guess where wear would occur in the chain.

EDIT: so what about ceramic coated?
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Mick F
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by Mick F »

Resurrection alert! :shock:

Has the original question been answered?
Is Zicral better (cheaper in the long-run) than Dural or steel?

I'm getting older and weaker ....................... I was thinking about a 28t inner to replace the 30t.
The 30t Campag (Zicral?) has done close on 30,000miles and apparently unworn.

Zircal vs Dural vs Steel?

What about ceramic?
Mick F. Cornwall
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RickH
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by RickH »

From my experience I would avoid steel - I found the Stronglight 26T I first used needed repeated removal of burrs, as the edges of the teeth deformed under pressure, that caused awful chainsuck.

I don't know about longevity, but I've found that TA chainrings are much better finished than Stronglight. (I'm currently running TA 50/39/26 rings on my otherwise 10x3 Campag Centaur/CompTriple setup).

One useful side effect I've found of a smaller inner is that with a 26T (& probably a 28T too) is that the inner is clear of the middle/outer bolts making it easy to take those rings off to give everything a thorough clean (leaving the inner in situ) without pulling the cranks. It was possible to remove all 3 rings with the originals (the 30T can be wiggled past the spider arms) but more fiddly as you needed to unbolt the inner before undoing the other bolts.

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CREPELLO
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by CREPELLO »

niggle wrote:To bring the thread back on topic, I have decided to replace the Sora middle ring as it is a little noisy running with the new Campag C9 chain, which I don't want to ruin by running it on a worn chain ring (I have only test ridden it up and down my street). So is the general opinion that Dural lasts about half as long as Zicral? If so the £10 Dural ring sounds like the better option compared to the £22 Zicral, from Spa Cycles.

I've noticed that shims no Middle rings seem to be noisier than others I've used. Don't know why this should be, but as they are heavily profiled this probably has a bearing on things and may not necessarily be a sign of rapid wear. Mind you, I don't think shimano rings wear well.
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Mick F
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Re: Dural 'v' Zicral

Post by Mick F »

I have a Campag Chorus triple 53/42/30.

The outer and middle can come off through the front without touching the inner at all. The four middle/outer bolts are accessible easily, and so is the fifth one into the rear of the crank.

Never tried undoing the five inner bolts with the crank in place on the bike, but I doubt the inner would come off through the front. Never tried it.
Mick F. Cornwall
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