Dawes Disc Brake Voluntary Recall

[horizon]

I for one,am a disc brake enthusiast but haven't said anyone is ''behind the times'' not using discs, just that I find discs more reliable than V's,cantis or calipers,especially in wet weather,where disc brake performance is unaffected and there's no rim wear to boot which is another plus.

I'm not aware of anyone else on the forum claiming v's etc to be ''behind the times''

The Shimano recall is something that doesn't affect me as my three sets of disc brakes are all BB7,I find it incredible that company such as Dawes doesn't have more concern for the safety of it's customers,so I'd say it's not so much disc brakes where the finger should be pointed,more the callous nature of such a well known company such as Dawes.
The term ''it's not what it used to be'' springs to mind where Dawes is concerned.I for one would look elsewhere for fear of Dawes not fulfilling their guarantee should I have any problems .

reohn2: the finger was not pointed at you. In fact, given that I cannot find the threads in question I have to withdraw the finger altogether. But my point still stands: the adoption of new technology (or drip-down technology) isn't as straightforward as simply accusing people of not moving on or adapting to change. Cyclists have a much closer interface with their machines than do motorists or laptop users. We need to know about and be able to fix common problems. For some cyclists, that can take years as maintenance slowly completes its cycle. So disc brakes for example really have to prove themselves over a period of time until problems and how to fix them become common knowledge or are indeed designed out of the system. That means that some people (the early adopters) must use them but not crow about performance over ease of maintenance and reliability. This thread is about chickens coming home to roost. It doesn't mean that discs aren't the future, just that we're not quite there yet and those people who don't use them are not to be denigrated.

[reohn2]

But my point still stands: the adoption of new technology (or drip-down technology) isn't as straightforward as simply accusing people of not moving on or adapting to change.

No one is AFAIK

Cyclists have a much closer interface with their machines than do motorists or laptop users. We need to know about and be able to fix common problems. For some cyclists, that can take years as maintenance slowly completes its cycle.

After reading the manufacturers instructions on maintenance and watching a video on youtube,I had to laugh as to how simple the BB7 brake caliper was to both adjust,strip and overhaul.Certainly as simple as V's,cantis or calipers,once the very short n shallow learning curve is climbed,even I could manage it in the ''big ring''

So disc brakes for example really have to prove themselves over a period of time until problems and how to fix them become common knowledge or are indeed designed out of the system.

I can't speak for any other disc brakes but BB7 cable discs are doddle,you could teach a monkey how to look after them

That means that some people (the early adopters) must use them but not crow about performance over ease of maintenance and reliability.

I do not understand that statement,if something's easy to strip,adjust, maintain and use why not?
Am I to keep it a secret?

This thread is about chickens coming home to roost.

And Dawes is the coup not disc brakes.

It doesn't mean that discs aren't the future, just that we're not quite there yet

But we are there,I for one have been for 5 years,and it's been a pleasure
Some people may choose not to ''be there'' that's their choice.

and those people who don't use them are not to be denigrated.

I certainly won't be denigrating anyone.
And I'm not aware of anyone else doing any denigrating on here!

[Brucey]

I think it is fair to say that R2's favoured disc brakes (BB7s with sintered pads IIRC) are probably about the best cable discs available at present. The only weak/potential trouble points are;

- squealing (doesn't afflict everyone; others are driven nuts by it)
- the usual cable disc stuff (need to have decent cables, learning curve for operation/maintenance, need a frame that is stiff/strong enough, worries about thermal loading, accidental damage, contamination etc)
- the extra weight (no biggie for touring, but CX riders fret about it)

Just like not all rim brakes are the same, there are lots of other disc brakes/pads out there which don't work anywhere near as well as BB7s with sintered pads. I don't think you can either condemn or enthusiastically endorse an entire type of brake on the basis of one version of it.

Rim brakes are something of a known evil; even if disc brakes were perfect in every way (which they are not) I wouldn't expect universal adoption overnight.

cheers

[horizon]

R2's prosletysing of BB7s is actually very helpful in that it adds to the general understanding. What I don't find helpful is people castigating others for slow adoption. It has happened on here (I can't find chapter and verse and don't want to raise them again anyway). I'm not against discs, I'm in favour of using the oldest, simplest, most tried and tested technology available to get the most reliable, most easily repairable bike possible. This runs counter to modern thinking that you need the latest technology based on performance or design alone. This idea of using simple, reliable technology to retain ownership of the tools of or in your life isn't old fashoned, it's cutting edge - it's much more exciting and forward thinking than the latest bit of disposable carbon bling. This thread contains two useful points: one, that Shimano discs are problematic (seriously so) and, two, that BB7s are simple and reliable. I know where I'm heading! As you say, we don't need either to condemn or uncritically endorse discs - we just need more threads like this to keep us on track.

[Vorpal]

and those people who don't use them are not to be denigrated.

I certainly won't be denigrating anyone.
And I'm not aware of anyone else doing any denigrating on here!

I think he means this thread.

[reohn2]

I think he means this thread.

I took a look and checked the first two pages,he's right you know there's some denigration going on there,I felt I was in the clear though

[reohn2]

........ This thread contains two useful points: one, that Shimano discs are problematic (seriously so) and, two, that BB7s are simple and reliable.

There's a third,Dawes have crap customer service!

I know where I'm heading!

Will you want a CF coffin with the Ti handles or veneered chipboard and plastic like the rest of us
BTW,I'm thinking of a nice wicker one so I can peer through the cracks and see who's laughing and who's crying

As you say, we don't need either to condemn or uncritically endorse discs - we just need more threads like this to keep us on track.

or more people coming to their senses and buying those disc equipped super machines

[ax010tl]

I bought my Dawes Galaxy Plus from Spa last year. They rang me a few days ago, explaining they were not happy with the brake performance, and asked me to bring it in. I descend a pretty steep 2-mile hill on my commute and had already noticed that the brakes weren't as sharp as I had expected (I had to pull them back all the way to the bars, and even then I would not have been able to make an emergency stop - bit of a white-knuckle ride, really). Spa sorted the brakes free of charge (2+ hours of labour), and the difference is immediately apparent. I'm a little surprised that a company of Dawes' renown would not quality-control something as essential as brakes before a bike leaves their factory; good job Spa are more conscientious.
ax

[reohn2]

Spa sorted the brakes free of charge (2+ hours of labour), and the difference is immediately apparent.

IMO we can conclude that Spa are interested in their customer relations and safety and deserves our continued support.

I'm a little surprised that a company of Dawes' renown would not quality-control something as essential as brakes before a bike leaves their factory...............

IMO we can only conclude that Dawes is now Dawes in name only,and couldn't give a monkeys for their customers safety or previous good reputation etc.It really isn't good enough is it?

There can be only one thing left for anyone considering Dawes.............don't.
IMO they've been overpriced for a number of years now anyway and could only be worth consideration when Spa used to hugely discount them when new models appeared,when safety issues come into it,it's a no brainer,they can't be trusted.

[horizon]

I'm a little surprised that a company of Dawes' renown would not quality-control something as essential as brakes before a bike leaves their factory; good job Spa are more conscientious.

While that's true, it says a lot about the validity of an LBS claiming that their role is crucial - buying an unset-up bike-in-a-box off the internet is high risk. I defence of Dawes, they are now like any mass market player and problems will crop up from time to time. AFAIK, they too want you to buy from an LBS for that reason. Dawes are still a serious bike maker and I would still recommend that anyone new to cycling finds something in their range - they are much more likely to find a useful bike. For anyone else, yes, there are other options when you know what you want and are prepared to pay a bit more or put it together yourself.

(I still think though that this says almost as much about disc brakes and fashion as it does about Dawes . . . )

[reohn2]

(I still think though that this says almost as much about disc brakes and fashion as it does about Dawes . . . )

It says far more about Dawes and how they value their customers

[horizon]

It says far more about Dawes and how they value their customers

You might be right.

[vjosullivan]

Dawes are still a serious bike maker

Do Dawes still make bikes? I was very much of the impression that they are really just and importing/distributing/marketing outfit now. That would explain their reluctance to engage with customers or recall bikes themselves. They have neither the hand-on cycle engineering expertise nor the facilities here to physically do any hands-on work, relying instead on the factories in the east to get everything right at their end.

Of course, I may be wrong. Perhaps an email to them would clarify things...

[horizon]

AIUI, Dawes bikes are made (i.e. assembled) at the Falcon Cycles factory in Lincolnshire as both now come under the Tandem Group PLC. AFAIK, they are designed and assembled in the UK but the frames are made in the Far East (it was and still may be Vietnam). Given that most of the components are Shimano along with a few other bits and pieces from Europe and the USA, that makes them about as British as any other mass bike maker. I presume that all the other mass market bike makers including the American brands follow the same pattern. Although the frames are made in Asia, the steel may be at times Reynolds (depending on the model), though where this is made now I'm not sure.

So the important bits are the design which I understand is still UK based at Castle Bromwich and assembly, in Lincolnshire. The after sales service is UK dealer based.

So yes, they do still make bikes inasmuch as that has any meaning today. Maybe it would be better to say they organise bikes - there isn't much left to make. Me personally, I wouldn't buy a new complete bike now but for lots and lots of people Dawes put together a package that works at a price that thirty years ago would have seemed impossible. And most people won't pay for a bike that has been made by a craft producer. So while they still have a range that meets most people's expectations, I'll still recommend them.