Worn rims

[barrym]

Gulp. Out with some friends on Sunday and we were talking about brake block wear. At our next stop, I asked a couple of them if they ever checked their rims for wear, only to get blank expressions. I reached down with my finger nail to demonstrate the groove which showed there was still some 'meat' left, and on the front, sure enough there was, but the back - yikes! Not only no groove, but the brake surface was quite concave.

So I started putting together my shopping list.

I currently have a Bontrager rim with a freewheel Shimano hub. Pretty cheap and rubbish. I ride throughout the year and find that the bearings get washed out pretty easy, weather or my cleaning not sure, but anyway I want something with better seals.

Not wanting to spend a fortune, but having dismissed anything with a freewheel as probably at the cheaper end, I'm looking at freehubs. SJS have a wheelset with eyelet rims and Shimano HB-RM70 hubs, which the manufacturer claims have reasonable seals. For £60 quid they seem like a good deal. What is the view here? Obviously there are 'better' (more expensive) wheelsets, but what would I see as an advantage? How about cartridge bearings are they any better?

[Brucey]

I would advise getting some decently built wheels with rims that can be replaced when they wear out. Shimano cassette hubs are pretty good but the RM series are budget hubs. The cheaper versions certainly don't have especially good seals.

A decent shimano hubset, well maintained, plus decent stainless steel spokes, should outlast three or four sets of rims. When you re-rim a wheel it can cost £20 a time or so if you can do it yourself.

Are you shopping for a 130 or 135mm rear hub BTW?

cheers

[barrym]

Thanks for swift reply. I'm pretty sure it's 135mm but you've got me worried now. I'll stick a rule across it tomorrow. It's a Trek hybrid so I reckon it would be 135 wouldn't it?

[Brucey]

Thanks for swift reply. I'm pretty sure it's 135mm but you've got me worried now. I'll stick a rule across it tomorrow. It's a Trek hybrid so I reckon it would be 135 wouldn't it?

-should be, yes.

cheers

[barrym]

So what are the criteria for a 'decent shimano hubset'? Is the XT any good? Will it take a 7 speed cassette with a spacer?

[Brucey]

not all XT models are created equal. But all that will accept 8s will take a 7s cassette with a spacer.

cheers

[iow]

THESE may be a better bet, although obviously more expensive.
robust deore hubs, quality dt spokes and easy to find mavic (double eyelet) rims when they need replacement.
not sure if they are hand built, so probably worth stress relieving and checking tension for long term reliability.

[horizon]

I understood at one time that Mavic rims, although lighter, were noticeably thinner than other makes and this had led to premature failure, particuarly with rim brakes. Is this still the case?

[Splin]

I thought the problem was only with the xt series http://travellingtwo.com/13732.
I've just got a pair of a719 built by rose and I'm quite happy so far.

[barrym]

Thanks for replies all.

This is a nightmare.

I take note of Brucey's view that a decent hub should last 2-3 rims, but at 3 times the price where's the advantage? I do like to reuse/repair when I can, but as with so many things these days replacement is cheaper.

I like the look of the Rose bikes wheel, and on their website there is so many more, cheaper and dearer. How does one choose? They're all hubs to me I know that eyelets are generally a good thing, but what else suggests a good rim?

Talking with SJS is easy and they are very helpful, although their range isn't quite as wide as far as prices go. Rose who I thought were just in Germany have a UK presence just a few miles from me, but limited contact by the sound of it. Only one guy there and I don't know if they stock stuff or not. I've got a mail in to him to see how they can help.

[Sweep]

Rose who I thought were just in Germany have a UK presence just a few miles from me, but limited contact by the sound of it. Only one guy there and I don't know if they stock stuff or not. I've got a mail in to him to see how they can help.

Didn't know they had a UK presence, however small.

Tell me more.

[Brucey]

the braking thickness of modern rims is an issue. Rims last longer if you use soft compound brake pads and check them for embedded rubbish on a regular basis, but an absence of rim thickness is a real problem.

It used to be that you could buy a 500g rim with a 2mm braking surface thickness. Not any more. If you want that kind of braking surface thickness then you are looking at a 600-700g rim. Such rims are stronger, sure, but they don't last any longer wear-wise.

Cheap wheels are normally cheap for a reason. Rose sell cheap wheels and in fact will sell you built wheels cheaper than they will sell you the parts to make wheels, which is either crazy or predatory. Their wheels are built by machine, and reports vary as to how good they are.

Good handbuilt wheels should be better than cheap wheels (whether they say they are handbuilt or not) because someone will have spent the time on them to make them properly reliable. Whether you value this or not is up to you, but the following are real possibilities;

- breaking spokes,
-having the wheel lose tension
-having the wheel go out of true,
- having rims wear out that cannot be replaced,
- having your hub bearings fail because they were not set up right,
- having hubs for which you cannot easily obtain spare parts
-having wheels where you cannot sensibly replace a single wheel in the event of a breakage

between all these things many cyclists these days just treat wheels as another consumable, like tyres, and just keep buying cheap wheels. It is a viable choice I guess, but it doesn't have to be like that; unreliable wheels are a pointless annoyance.

cheers

[barrym]

Rose who I thought were just in Germany have a UK presence just a few miles from me, but limited contact by the sound of it. Only one guy there and I don't know if they stock stuff or not. I've got a mail in to him to see how they can help.

Didn't know they had a UK presence, however small.

Tell me more.

Check here https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/contact/show half way down.

[iow]

I understood at one time that Mavic rims, although lighter, were noticeably thinner than other makes and this had led to premature failure, particuarly with rim brakes. Is this still the case?

I would usually expect a lighter rim to have thinner brake tracks, but I don't think it would be fair to say it failed prematurely just because it didn't last as long as a heavier weight rim.
mavic make some light rims and some not-so-light rims - the customer makes their own choice.
I've just built up a pair of mavic A119's (basically an A319 with a single eyelet) and the brake tracks were 1.6mm thick.
by comparison my lightweight rims (H plus son archetypes) have 1.4mm tracks.
depending where you look, mavic A319 rims weigh around 575g, which is comparable to other medium duty 17/19mm width 700c rims - I would expect them all to wear at a similar rate.
for me, I think a 575g rim is a fair compromise for general purpose riding and light touring.

[Magilla Gorilla]

I've been wondering about this issue too. Many people have said to me that if you are getting rims replaced, the spokes will be replaced at the same time. Is this usually the case? If it is, all you're left with is the hub.... buying a new set of wheels would make more sense unless it's a very special hub.

I'm currently using Mavic Elites, but I'm wondering what would be an equivalent, repairable and cost-effective alternative? Any ideas?