Sturmey Archer 5-speed ( sprinter, etc. )

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
Brucey
Posts: 33874
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby Brucey » 4 May 2014, 9:22pm

Re the cone; you need to adjust it in the manner described, but when the left cone is loose. I normally add a tabbed lockwasher to the right side so it can't move (like they used to have as standard) even if the locknut comes loose. On the left side I usually add a washer that engages with the axle flats, so that it is possible to adjust the bearings without needing a second cone spanner should the need arise.

Re the 'whirring'. This is 'normal' and is a bit worse than with the older version of the hub because the pinions are a different size. With use and better lubrication it will reduce somewhat but I can still hear mine (many tens of thousands of miles later) if I listen carefully.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

cjchambers
Posts: 833
Joined: 29 Jun 2008, 9:55pm
Location: Maidenhead

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby cjchambers » 4 May 2014, 11:54pm

Thanks Brucey. I'm planning to relubricate at 500 miles or so - I'll see what it's like after that.

TwoWheelsGood
Posts: 189
Joined: 6 Feb 2007, 8:32pm

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby TwoWheelsGood » 6 May 2014, 2:30pm

Sturmey Archer's 2014/2015 Catalogue:

http://www.sunrace.cz/dokumenty/sturmey ... 4-2015.pdf

Big disappointment with the new C50 series is the weight; the lightest hub in the range being 1,950g (heavier than a Rohloff 14 speed hub). And the S-RF5(W) has been discontinued, though there are similar-looking TS-RC5 and TS-RF5 hubs listed under the Quadricycle/Tricycle category.

OnYourRight
Posts: 283
Joined: 30 Jun 2013, 8:53pm

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby OnYourRight » 6 May 2014, 4:27pm

Thanks for the link to the new catalogue. It says the C50 is “designed for heavy duty use”. Is that just to excuse the weight or a very good reason for the weight?

In any case, the weight doesn’t strike me as intolerable. The Rohloff is light (for its capabilities) and reliable, but some hubs seem to be light and unreliable, or even heavy and unreliable (e.g. Sachs Elan). Hopefully the C50 is strong.

PJ520
Posts: 887
Joined: 23 Mar 2008, 3:49pm
Location: Seattle WA USA

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby PJ520 » 7 May 2014, 5:55am

Sweep wrote:Your knowledge continues to astound me Brucey ,though your description of using something with just 5 gears makes it sound like trying to test pilot an early jet!
+1
You only live once, which is enough if you do it right. - Mae West

Brucey
Posts: 33874
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby Brucey » 7 May 2014, 7:18am

Pete Jack wrote:
Sweep wrote:Your knowledge continues to astound me Brucey ,though your description of using something with just 5 gears makes it sound like trying to test pilot an early jet!
+1


well I don't think it is any more awkward than (say) changing gear in a car with a standard manual transmission, and you end up doing that without even thinking about it.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Sweep
Posts: 5023
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 4:57pm
Location: London

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby Sweep » 7 May 2014, 7:34am

I don't think you're being criticised Brucey :)

My driving days are over (maybe just as well) but the car did seem somewhat simpler.
Sweep

Brucey
Posts: 33874
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby Brucey » 7 May 2014, 7:40am

TwoWheelsGood wrote:Sturmey Archer's 2014/2015 Catalogue:

http://www.sunrace.cz/dokumenty/sturmey ... 4-2015.pdf

Big disappointment with the new C50 series is the weight; the lightest hub in the range being 1,950g (heavier than a Rohloff 14 speed hub). And the S-RF5(W) has been discontinued, though there are similar-looking TS-RC5 and TS-RF5 hubs listed under the Quadricycle/Tricycle category.


possibly the tricycle/quad hubs are going to carry on for a while or until the stocks are depleted or something; I don't think they are big sellers.

OnYourRight wrote:Thanks for the link to the new catalogue. It says the C50 is “designed for heavy duty use”. Is that just to excuse the weight or a very good reason for the weight?

In any case, the weight doesn’t strike me as intolerable. The Rohloff is light (for its capabilities) and reliable, but some hubs seem to be light and unreliable, or even heavy and unreliable (e.g. Sachs Elan). Hopefully the C50 is strong.


Hopefully. We shall see. I believe that the C50 is designed for shifting an E-bike under full load. Continental spec e-bikes can be a good deal more powerful in some countries so a beefy hub seems like a good idea for that application. Seems a bit OTT for a conventional bike though.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Brucey
Posts: 33874
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby Brucey » 7 May 2014, 8:13am

Sweep wrote:I don't think you're being criticised Brucey :)

My driving days are over (maybe just as well) but the car did seem somewhat simpler.


I think you can make every shift on a single-toggle SA 5s hub using the same technique, it just isn't the technique that SA describe in their blurb. There are some shifts which you can do using a variety of different techniques without issue.

When you look in detail at most IGHs you realise that there are some shifts that work differently to others and therefore either do or don't tolerate small variations in adjustment or shifting technique. Once you know this it can alter the way you use the hub. For example the shimano N8 hub has a very different 4-5 shift than every other shift on the hub; do that one under load every time and it is only a matter of time before you get trouble.

In the grand scheme of things if there are relatively few gears then you are likely to know which gear you are in and be able to shift accordingly should it be required. But when there are lots of gears and just one lever it is easier to lose track of where you are. So I am OK with having odd shifts on a 5s hub or even an 8s hub (just) but any more than that and I know I'd not always allow for the shifting differences.

Familiarity brings its own perspective; if you were beamed down from outer space (or has simply not ridden a bike before) you would struggle to find the logic in (say) a 3x8/9/10 derailleur system but we take it for granted that it must be used in particular way. Not that it is obvious how to get the best out of it, judging from the number of people I see riding cross-chained, or in entirely the wrong gear.

Oddly enough with the twin toggle 5s hubs it is more obvious what is going on in the hub, especially if you are already used to a 3s hub. The right lever works just like a 3s hub, and if the gear isn't high or low enough you can use the left lever to access an underdrive/overdrive ratio. The shifts that require most care are the ones made with the left lever, just like a derailleur system.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Sweep
Posts: 5023
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 4:57pm
Location: London

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby Sweep » 7 May 2014, 8:29am

My 5-speed sprinter now seems to have settled down Brucey.

And am following what I take to be your recommended shifting technique (the "more complicated" system I think was for a different gearbox) of pedalling forwards "lightly" (ie not under lots of load) to ensure that the gear has gone in before putting full force on it.

My sprinter must have been one of the last to be supplied on a Brompton so I'm kind of assuming that it must be a ball locker? (apologies if I missed something in all of the detail above)

I think my problem was a mixture of adjustment which had gone out, chain and sprocket* which needed changing, and also alarm at reports back from the partner at her last ride on it.

Many thanks for all your help Brucey - I may take the thing into Bicycle Workshop for the lube to be sorted though - it hasn't been touched for about 15 years.



(* for anyone who has never done it by the way, pretty easy to do as long as you use circlip pliers - possibly easier than changing a cassette, particularly if you have put it on too tight)
Sweep

Brucey
Posts: 33874
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby Brucey » 7 May 2014, 8:36am

15 years huh...? There are few other gearing systems that would have a chance of tolerating that length of time with no maintenance.... :wink:

Re Sprinter ball locker vs dog locker; I think that ball-lockers have a chamfer on the left end of the axle but dog lockers don't. Bromptons often use special versions of SA hubs so maybe this doesn't hold true for them. The hubs, shifters, etc are otherwise identical externally, and you can swap one centre for the other type.

If anyone has any further examples that support or refute the axle chamfer hypothesis please let me know.

cheers
Last edited by Brucey on 7 May 2014, 8:38am, edited 1 time in total.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

fatboy
Posts: 3319
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 1:32pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby fatboy » 7 May 2014, 8:37am

Brucey wrote:
OnYourRight wrote:Thanks for the link to the new catalogue. It says the C50 is “designed for heavy duty use”. Is that just to excuse the weight or a very good reason for the weight?

In any case, the weight doesn’t strike me as intolerable. The Rohloff is light (for its capabilities) and reliable, but some hubs seem to be light and unreliable, or even heavy and unreliable (e.g. Sachs Elan). Hopefully the C50 is strong.


Hopefully. We shall see. I believe that the C50 is designed for shifting an E-bike under full load. Continental spec e-bikes can be a good deal more powerful in some countries so a beefy hub seems like a good idea for that application. Seems a bit OTT for a conventional bike though.

cheers


If it is very tough then may be a worthwhile compromise.
"Marriage is a wonderful invention; but then again so is the bicycle puncture repair kit." - Billy Connolly

Brucey
Posts: 33874
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby Brucey » 7 May 2014, 8:39am

it may yet prove to be a super hub for (say) utility bikes; we shall see....

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OnYourRight
Posts: 283
Joined: 30 Jun 2013, 8:53pm

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby OnYourRight » 7 May 2014, 9:25am

Does anyone know the chainring/sprocket ratio limitation for the new C50? I don’t see it mentioned in the PDF catalogue TwoWheelsGood linked to above, but I may have missed it.

User avatar
Sweep
Posts: 5023
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 4:57pm
Location: London

Re: S.A. 5speed

Postby Sweep » 12 Jul 2014, 3:24pm

Reporting back.

I eventually took my 5 speed Brommie into Bicycle workshop.

http://www.bicycleworkshop.co.uk/

*

The guy who saw to it said that to change gear in all gears you should:

1: Pause pedalling

2: Change gear

3: Back pedal a small bit - a 1/16th of a turn I think he said.

4: Pedal forwards at normal pressure confident after "3" that the gear had gone in.

In fact he reckoned that he could tell from looking at the internals of the gear that I hadn't been doing the back pedalling. My normal system I think was to take pressure off, change, pedal forward not under force at first to check that all had gone in.


**(I think they are better at bikes than web page proofing - their phone number is wrong bottom right of page - correct one at top)
Sweep