schwalbe tyre issues

[samsbike]

what width, what pressures were you running, what rim, and how/how often did you check the pressure?

cheers

25c, ran at about 100psi checked after every ride, about twice a week.

[Brucey]

what rim were they fitted to?

BTW the current M+ in 25-622 is rated to 115psi and has a maximum load rating of only 75kg. It is a little known fact that the maximum load rating of a tyre is only achieved at the maximum pressure.

To a first approximation the maximum load rating goes pro-rata with pressure below the maximum. So at 100psi your actual load rating might be only 65kg.

25-622 tyres will lose pressure faster than wider tyres (higher pressures always leak faster, and a given volume loss affects the pressure more). With even quite good tubes, 10psi a week loss, easy. So you might have been running at 90psi some of the time, which would reduce the load rating to 58kg. If it dropped to 80psi for any reason then 52kg load rating might be about right.

Looking elsewhere, the 15% tyre drop method

http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/TireDrop.pdf

suggests that 100psi on a 25mm tyre might be OK for a 52kg load and that 90psi would be OK for a 47kg load. By this reckoning a 75kg load (as suggested by schwalbe) at 115psi (and the various estimated pro-rata load ratings at reduced pressures) would constitute a state of underinflation. In the absence of other information I would aim to use the more conservative estimate of appropriate load vs pressure. Also, note that when climbing out of the saddle, you can get pretty near having the whole weight (you, the bike, your luggage) plus the tractive force all going through the rear tyre which gives it a really hard time.

If the rim has badly radiused edges, this will again derate the tyre fitment, but by an unknown amount.

I know from bitter experience that it is easy to overestimate the pressure in tyres with stiff sidewalls, so if I am running these I have to check with an accurate gauge on a regular basis. If there is any doubt about the loading/pressure on a tyre and the bead fails, I would always suspect underinflation first unless proven otherwise.

Another way to look at this is that if you are a big guy and you run narrow tyres, you most likely need to be absolutely obsessive about checking pressures etc (probably every ride) and even then you shouldn't expect the tyres to last that long, or tolerate any damage/ill treatment.

cheers

[MySpaceDog]

Just to add my tuppence worth.... Myself and my partner are cycling around the world. Both of our rear Mondials have delaminated after 6000 and 7000km respectively. We have a pump that shows the PSI values as we pump and neither tire has been pumped up higher than 5PSI below the max and they have never been below 40 PSI on inspection. We have flown once with them, deflated of course.

I must say, for tires that set you back nearly £50 a pop they have not lived up to expectations. Does anybody know of any other tires suitable for expedition cycling? The old XT's lasted a lot longer than 7000km that's for sure....

[Brucey]

...rear Mondials have delaminated after 6000 and 7000km respectively. We have a pump that shows the PSI values as we pump and neither tire has been pumped up higher than 5PSI below the max and they have never been below 40 PSI on inspection... ..I must say, for tires that set you back nearly £50 a pop they have not lived up to expectations. Does anybody know of any other tires suitable for expedition cycling? The old XT's lasted a lot longer than 7000km that's for sure....

It could be that 40psi is a bit on the low side, but that would depend on the load and the tyre section; Mondials come in widths from 37 to 55mm.

However it is quite possible that the delamination will have been made more likely by some variation (random or deliberate) in the way the tyres were made; I don't think that there is a tyre manufacturer out there that hasn't made some duffers at some time or another.

cheers

[Bikefayre]

My reason for liking Schwalbe is because another cyclist recommended them. Also have had a wheelchair tyre the Schwalbe Marathon Plus Evo for over three years with only cracking due to age. My Schwalbe Snow Stud is now over two years old and is only half worn. Now being honest have noticed a strange thing with Schwalbe, you can buy one tyre with the moulding as sharp as a Continental the next one will be moulded rougher than a ten pound tyre from Bronx. The Bronx are surprisingly good as a Michelin failed miserably as it punctured with every ride, the Bronx despite being full of thorns stuck in the rubber has not gone down. What people on this forum do not realise although do recommend certain Schwalbe tyres are more likely to go for Camel, Meghna, Samura, Duro, Bronx, Innova and other cheap makes. Meghna will not be used again as it too has moulding issues in the tread plus people are suffering blowouts with this brand. Camel Megadrives despite being heavily perished got me through a snowy icy winter. Have noticed most cyclists go for tyres with big letters and labels whereas myself prefer blank sidewall tyres. Like Schwalbe tubes so will stick with those and Raleigh ones especially their Puncture Resistant range. Michelin have let me down so has Raleigh tyres, as have had carcass and grip problems. Schwalbe have been really good so far. My most reliable brand has been Samura and Duro. A Samura tyre lasted for nearly two years on the rear and had only one glass puncture so was far superior to the Michelin Cross tyres. Have noticed cheap tyres are getting poorer in quality and sadly it seems the branded tyres are being sold with faults you would have seen on lesser makes, think they are trying to make complicated tyres too cheaply. Really miss the 'seventies tyres especially Michelins though not the tubes as they were held on with a locknut!!! Although would not want the endless punctures of old these tyres had far better moulding and better tread designs. The Continental Nordic Spike is a modern version of a classic Michelin Roadster pattern. Out of interest has anyone heard about Clement tyres? A tyre for me is judged on it's engineering and merit, nothing else, as do not care if it's been made in a shed so a long it grips, handles and performs as it should.

[3spd]

I have had the bead break on 2 Marathons while cycling and my big apples have got quite a few big cuts in the tread.
Won't be rushing back!

[Bikefayre]

Have decided due to the Schwalbe tyre issues to fit the non Tour version of the Schwalbe Energizer Plus to one a hybrid and the Continental E-Contact [Indian] to my every day mountain bike. Reckon if they are stamped in raised letters with MOPED the tyres should be to much higher spec and quality. Will stick to the Schwalbe wheelchair tyres for two of my bikes the Schwalbe Marathon Plus Evo and also use one of the best, the Schwalbe Marathon Racer on two bikes. My tyres are exposed to abrasive sandy roads filled with stones, boulders and sharp shells. In the countryside have had my tyres being pushed about with stones, boulders and gravel. Since cycling this way since the 'seventies have never suffered any problems apart from a damaged carcass on a Cheng Shin a few years back which have always hated as they have zero grip and would not use Maxxis either as they are Cheng Shins with a daft label, a con. Cannot understand why tyres should fail as have been using tyres now classified as wheelchair tyres since the late 'seventies with few problems apart from punctures, they did not have modern puncture proof carcasses and have used the most rotten second hand tyres with a few carcasses spreading but never burst. Are now on my fourth puncture in over ten years so modern tyres can't be that bad compared to twelve in one day with the standard wheelchair tyres, hence the reason for the Plus tyre My own track pump is my second BETO with gauge. Also are fourteen stone running elderly bikes which are a good bit heavier than the newer bikes and my mountain bike is stupidly heavy you need two hands to lift it! And think nothing of using road bike tyres on these same roads though are now changing to trekking slicks. Due to moulding faults will not be replacing the Schwalbe Snow Stud at the rear or the Ice Spiker as new ones were faulty, they gone to cyclists who do not care about their bikes or tyres, a month is the lifespan of their tyres! My mountain bike is going to have Bronx slicks [similar to Schwalbe City Jet] and the new E-Contact from Continental at the rear.

[michaelglass]

Had the beads fail on newish Marathon Pluses. Less than 300 miles on the tyres (still have those new-tyre rubber dudes).

[Cugel]

Insufficient tyre pressures can cause a lot of tyre damage.

I have two track pumps with built-in gauges and two stand-alone gauges. The track pump gauges read 15% & 20% less than do the stand-alone gauges, which tend to agree with each other with only a couple of psi difference - all on the same tyre being inflated.

Of course, I don't know if the stand-alone gauges are both equally wrong and one of the track pump gauges is right. Or if all the gauges are wrong! Before I got the stand-alone gauges I used the track pump gauge readings, so presumably had my tyres under-inflated - but never got a snakebite.

But perhaps, using the stand-alone gauge, I now have over-inflated tyres?

How does one find an accurate benchmark gauge with which to measure the other gauges, so one may compensate for any inaccurate pressure gauge indication?

Cugel

[Brucey]

I'd believe a (newish, good quality) stand-alone gauge over one attached to a track pump, any day.

If the track pump gauges under-read (eg indicate 60psi when the pressure is actually 70psi), you would expect to over-inflate your tyres as a consequence, not under-inflate them.

cheers

[Brucey]

Had the beads fail on newish Marathon Pluses. Less than 300 miles on the tyres (still have those new-tyre rubber dudes).

it is not possible to be certain from a single photo but that looks like the chafer ply is coming apart/away from the tyre. [If the bead had 'failed' you would be able to see wires or something]. The chafer can come way from the tyre because the tyre was badly made (in which case nearly all Contis are similarly 'badly made' IME) or because the tyre has been roughly handled.

The chafer ply is only there to prevent the edge of the rim from chafing against the tyre. It doesn't strengthen the tyre directly. The chafer ply often comes loose on older tyres but only rarely on newer ones. IME the biggest danger is that a loose chafer ply gets folded over as the tyre is installed and then the sidewall fails by chafing.

cheers

[peetee]

My many unhappy experiences with Schwalbe are stated on a previous recent thread and they started a couple of years ago with misshapen Marathon Plus 26". I am an independent bike mechanic who stocks a fair few tyres to cover most needs and I have about 20 Schwalbe tyres hanging in my (cool dark) garage at the moment. I source everything I use from established UK outlets and, margins being what they are, I try to get the cheapest option at the time, so identifying the retailer concerned for a returned tyre with a problem would be a difficult thing. Apart from which fact I don't think it fair that the retailer get involved as it is clearly a quality issue at source.
I am going to contact Schwalbe this afternoon stating my position in the hope that they, as opposed to the retailers, are willing to address my concerns.

[borisface]

I've used marathons for a number of years without an issue. I recently had a couple of rear wheel punctures on my ebike running schwalbe range cruisers which is a real pain as the bike weighs 25kgs and it is difficult to get the rear wheel back in. I had some unused marathons in the shed, so swapped the rear tyre out, although the existing tyre had done under 2000kms and looks in good shape. On the second ride, I had another RW puncture on the new marathon. When I looked I found that the metal bead had come out from its rubber casing and actually caused the puncture.

Then yesterday there was a great bang and I found that the front range cruiser had exploded ripping the bead clean off. I run the tyres within the recommended pressure range. Not happy. I have complained to schwalbe.

[Brucey]

…. I run the tyres within the recommended pressure range. Not happy. I have complained to schwalbe.

It isn't clear in bicycle tyre instructions but in most tyres (of all types) the maximum load rating should only be used when the maximum pressure is also used. So using lower pressures might be avoided on most bikes (simply because it is hard work) but not on an e-bike, which is also heavier. So e-bikes often give tyres a much harder time and Schwalbe have revised their tyres to include 'e-bike ready' labels where appropriate. This is partly a legal requirement (for faster continental e-bikes) but also reflects changes in the way some of their tyres are constructed. I regard unconsolidated wire beads (which could have caused both incidents you mention) as a manufacturing fault but there is no doubt that high loads and low pressures cause this fault to manifest itself whereas otherwise you might 'get away with it'.

I shall be interested to hear how you get on.

My many unhappy experiences with Schwalbe ………...identifying the retailer concerned for a returned tyre with a problem would be a difficult thing. Apart from which fact I don't think it fair that the retailer get involved as it is clearly a quality issue at source.
I am going to contact Schwalbe this afternoon stating my position in the hope that they, as opposed to the retailers, are willing to address my concerns.

what was the outcome to this?

FWIW I have returned faulty Schwalbe tyres (which may not have come via them, often because this would have been impossible via the original route) via a 'friendly' wholesaler, but that has always been with an implied 'quid pro quo' whereas I think this (or return to the manufacturer direct) should be a right, not a favour to be granted.

cheers

[peetee]

My many unhappy experiences with Schwalbe ………...identifying the retailer concerned for a returned tyre with a problem would be a difficult thing. Apart from which fact I don't think it fair that the retailer get involved as it is clearly a quality issue at source.
I am going to contact Schwalbe this afternoon stating my position in the hope that they, as opposed to the retailers, are willing to address my concerns.

what was the outcome to this?

FWIW I have returned faulty Schwalbe tyres (which may not have come via them, often because this would have been impossible via the original route) via a 'friendly' wholesaler, but that has always been with an implied 'quid pro quo' whereas I think this (or return to the manufacturer direct) should be a right, not a favour to be granted.

cheers[/quote]

Alas, I never got round to it, being suddenly plunged into the heady world of tying up my local business affairs and moving house a not inconsiderable distance. But yes, I do agree that in such instances as it is obvious that retailer or distribution chain are not responsible it is unfair to burden another party with such an issue.