Weight

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al_yrpal
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Re: Weight

Postby al_yrpal » 25 Jun 2014, 10:16pm

Ha ha! Not that much can be done about the engine, beyond hope probably. 71 years old, didnt cycle for 50 years until 8 years ago. I have been sticking to the top ring on my rides where possible which has increased my leg strength, but I am not a fitness freak. I can ride up to 70 miles in a day and still have some petrol left in the tank. On the light Mercian i am 1.5 to 2 mph faster than on my tourer which weighs about 4 kg more. More weight loss is desirable 5ft 10 13 stone on a big frame. I am onto that.
My wheels have lovely Campag hubs and the freewheel clicks nicely indicating quality, the rims are Mavic Open Pros shod with new 23mm Schwalbe Luganos. I think they are probably good quality but dont know if I could get wheels with a smaller rotational mass?
I do have a CO2 thingy, must get some cylinders to try it. Could leave the lock behind on most rides. Thanks for the ideas and comments.

Al
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ChrisF
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Re: Weight

Postby ChrisF » 25 Jun 2014, 10:26pm

Last week I returned from a moving-on cycling tour in Scotland. For most of the time I was with two others who were pretty near matches for speed on both flat roads and hills. We each had about 8-10kg of luggage in panniers, and our bikes (pannierless) would each be between 10-12kg. One rider was quite a bit heavier than me (60kg for me, 80+ for him??).
On the last day I was staying longer than the others and was able to leave my luggage at the youth hostel while the others had to continue with their loads.
Result: no difference on the flat (as expected) but I was sailing up the hills, managing to stay in the big chainring for most of them. Had to wait for the others for quite a while each time. So 10kg makes a big difference in hilly country.
Chris F, Cornwall

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al_yrpal
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Re: Weight

Postby al_yrpal » 25 Jun 2014, 10:56pm

quilkin wrote:Last week I returned from a moving-on cycling tour in Scotland. For most of the time I was with two others who were pretty near matches for speed on both flat roads and hills. We each had about 8-10kg of luggage in panniers, and our bikes (pannierless) would each be between 10-12kg. One rider was quite a bit heavier than me (60kg for me, 80+ for him??).
On the last day I was staying longer than the others and was able to leave my luggage at the youth hostel while the others had to continue with their loads.
Result: no difference on the flat (as expected) but I was sailing up the hills, managing to stay in the big chainring for most of them. Had to wait for the others for quite a while each time. So 10kg makes a big difference in hilly country.


I suffered that a lot on tour over the years like that at 100kg, particularly when I was with a diminutive guy. I whipped past him downhill though and riding into headwinds on the flat he could hardly keep up with me, my frame and bigger muscles came into their own then. Thats partly why I am working so hard to get my weight down substantially. Its good for your health and makes you a better cyclist.
Thanks for the article on bike weight, I partially agree with it but, as an ex mechanical engineer I think the calcs are rather simplistic.

Al
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Brucey
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Re: Weight

Postby Brucey » 25 Jun 2014, 11:16pm

al_yrpal wrote: the rims are Mavic Open Pros shod with new 23mm Schwalbe Luganos. I think they are probably good quality but dont know if I could get wheels with a smaller rotational mass?


Hmm... IIRC the luganos are around 350g each? Open Pro rims are actually pretty light. I have a set built up on some ultegra hubs and with a couple of tweaks ( Ti axles and alloy nipples) my boring old 32 spoke wheels are about the same weight as some very expensive wheels. With the right tyres they feel lovely.

You can (usually by sacrificing durability) go to a ~200g 23mm tyre and maybe a lighter tube as well. A target of 350g weight reduction is not unrealistic, and you will go a little bit faster.

I have found that (at any given width) going to a lighter tyre nearly always means you go to an easier rolling, more comfortable tyre. Often a wider tyre with the same construction is still pretty light but may roll even better. So if you go to an Ultremo ZX tyre a 23mm one weighs in at 195g but a 28mm one weighs in at just 235g (claimed).

I'd love to see some comparable Crr data for the 23mm and 28mm versions of this tyre; the 28mm one could be the new Audax/light touring favourite...

cheers
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Weight

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 25 Jun 2014, 11:17pm

Hi,
Its all in the mind, my skip trainer weighs in at 23.................kilos not pounds !
The training I did in the last six months have paid off, on a recent ride I did 170 miles in 12.5 hours, and 140 miles of that at 16 mph, touring bike 20 kilos.
It does'nt matter what your ride, if you have some spare dosh, but a plastic bike with no garentee for sunday posing :)
Bike owes me £ 83, built from recycled parts, only covered 1000 miles, 2 rear wheels - 2 chains (eats them) 2 derralieurs (1 new 1 used) 1st ever rear derralieur wrap around :o Gearing is 25 mph flat out :? Forks are an overkill :)
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UpWrong
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Re: Weight

Postby UpWrong » 25 Jun 2014, 11:23pm

The 28mm Ultremo ZX is a full 28mm on a Mavic Open Sport rim and is much more comfortable than a 28mm Durano on the same rim, but the Durano only came to 25mm. I managed 700 commuting miles on my ZX tyres with two punctures (one front, one rear).

Tonyf33
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Re: Weight

Postby Tonyf33 » 25 Jun 2014, 11:39pm

Agree on the rotating mass especially getting up to speed..I'm trying out an experiment this weekend.
Going to fit my 38mm carbon tubulars to my vintage Carlton. Luckily it was cold set some time back so has an approx 130mm OLN, the wheels weigh 1950g including tyres so are a good 600g lighter than the 27" I have fitted which aren't heavy by any stretch. I'll have a scoot along my favourite route and see what the results are.

Considering the weight 'penalty' not sure why people carry CO2 cyclinders, especially on commuter/audax bikes when decent pumps can be had for around 100g?
I've an old 1970s model that is 104g with the adapter and it's a good 30cm long, I had an ultra light 20cm pump from around the same era that weighed under 60g and could put 90psi into a 25mm tyre relatively easily compared to some of the modern rubbish that take about 200 strokes or just can't. (though some modern ones are very very good). I guess those with shoulder/hand problems might want them but how much time you going to save if you need to take your tyre and tube out anyway?

I deffo think the weight penalty of older bikes isn't that big a deal at the level most of us are riding at, however 'slicker' tyres, better bearings, smoother gear operation make incremental improvements. Evben the psychology of riding a 'better' bike can make you push that little bit harder but the most important thing is of course aerodynamics.
15kg bike with 100kg rider wearing snug clothing and low body position should still beat an equivalent 100kg person riding a 7 kg bike that has a flappy jacket and is riding in a markedly more upright position (though up a reasonable slope probably won't)

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Mick F
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Re: Weight

Postby Mick F » 26 Jun 2014, 8:25am

Tonyf33 wrote: ....not sure why people carry CO2 cyclinders, especially on commuter/audax bikes when decent pumps can be had for around 100g?
My two cylinders plus the adaptor unit weigh 140g (just weighed them). My Lezyne mini track pump weighs 175g and it can inflate my tyres up and beyond 120psi if I wanted with relative ease. It can clip to a bracket mounted on a bottle cage.

Compare that to a mini pump that I have. It weighs only 117g but there's no way I can reach the required pressure for my tyres despite my magnificent strength and fitness. :D

CO2 on the other hand, can inflate to rock hard in a second or so.

The weight on it's own isn't why I take CO2, it's because of clutter and size. Where would I put a decent pump?
On the frame? Why should I when I can put two CO2s in a small bag along with the spare tubes, tools, and tyre levers?
Mick F. Cornwall

PDQ
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Re: Weight

Postby PDQ » 26 Jun 2014, 9:36am

Richard Ballantine (New Bicycle Book) wrote " a cyclist moving at 20mph displaces some 1000 pounds of air a minute, a task which consumes about 85% of the riders total energy output"

I guess that's why it's impossible to keep up with a local fella in his Quest in spite of the fact fact that it wieghs 60 odd pounds.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Weight

Postby [XAP]Bob » 26 Jun 2014, 9:41am

Mick F wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote: ....not sure why people carry CO2 cyclinders, especially on commuter/audax bikes when decent pumps can be had for around 100g?
My two cylinders plus the adaptor unit weigh 140g (just weighed them). My Lezyne mini track pump weighs 175g and it can inflate my tyres up and beyond 120psi if I wanted with relative ease. It can clip to a bracket mounted on a bottle cage.

Compare that to a mini pump that I have. It weighs only 117g but there's no way I can reach the required pressure for my tyres despite my magnificent strength and fitness. :D

CO2 on the other hand, can inflate to rock hard in a second or so.

The weight on it's own isn't why I take CO2, it's because of clutter and size. Where would I put a decent pump?
On the frame? Why should I when I can put two CO2s in a small bag along with the spare tubes, tools, and tyre levers?

Did you not specify pump pegs on your frame? Shame on you :p
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squeaker
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Re: Weight

Postby squeaker » 26 Jun 2014, 9:51am

al_yrpal wrote:..... and the freewheel clicks nicely indicating quality.....
Not to me it doesn't - just poor design, as IME it is feasible to make a quiet freewheel that's durable :roll:
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reohn2
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Re: Weight

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jun 2014, 10:05am

squeaker wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:..... and the freewheel clicks nicely indicating quality.....
Not to me it doesn't - just poor design, as IME it is feasible to make a quiet freewheel that's durable :roll:

We have DT Swiss hubs on one of the tandems.Oh! can the freewheel clicking annoy,especially as all the other bikes are nice soothing Shimano (almost)silent.
A bit like being followed by Magpies :?
PS,I don't like the sound of Hope hub freewheels either FWIW.
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Re: Weight

Postby reohn2 » 26 Jun 2014, 10:05am

double post deleted
Last edited by reohn2 on 26 Jun 2014, 2:33pm, edited 1 time in total.
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OnYourRight
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Re: Weight

Postby OnYourRight » 26 Jun 2014, 10:34am

PDQ wrote:Richard Ballantine (New Bicycle Book) wrote " a cyclist moving at 20mph displaces some 1000 pounds of air a minute, a task which consumes about 85% of the riders total energy output"

I think that figure (85 %) might be a fraction high for a road bike (not by a lot, but by enough to make tyres considerably more important). Also, 20 MPH is fast. Average speeds tend to be lower on long rides, and drag falls off rapidly as speeds diminish.

I’ve never used the Schwalbe Lugano, but looking at Schwalbe’s info about it I suspect you would improve your average speeds more by changing to a lighter tyre with less puncture protection than you would be saving even 3 kg from your bike.

al_yrpal wrote:Thanks for the article on bike weight, I partially agree with it but, as an ex mechanical engineer I think the calcs are rather simplistic.

They might be simplistic, but are they misleading? I think they paint an accurate picture of the effect of losing a couple of kilograms, i.e. significant if times matter, but probably irrelevant for people merely wanting to get from A to B – even if they’re in a rush!

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Mick F
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Re: Weight

Postby Mick F » 26 Jun 2014, 10:48am

Pump pegs?
Frame fit?
I had both in the past, but why?
Carry CO2 for convenience and ease, without having to take a pump that clutters your nice bike when you hardly ever need it!
On a tour, I'll take a pump because it fits very nicely inside the kitchen sink in my trailer. :wink:



Also, my Campag freewheel is almost silent. The high-end ones are, it's just the cheap low-end ones that click loudly.
Mick F. Cornwall