MartinC wrote:Yes, part of the risk in riding ice and snow comes from the possibility of others losing control rather than you.
I'm putting my studded tyres on a spare bike as we speak. But the risk of cars losing control is still a real one - putting you in danger even though you are still upright. It may be of course there are times when the roads are snow covered and quiet but a bicycle will get through.
I'm still not convinced that "winter" (non-studded) tyres are a fail-safe option when there is ice around but I'm open to further views on this.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
Winter tyres are usually 'trekking' tyres that have a deeper tread with wider free flowing grooves, vehicle tyres rated all season M+S are like this. Full winter tyres have studs for biking on ice, sipes for snow grip and a special compound for keep the rubber sticky in the cold. Have decided to use a studded tyre on the front of my mountain bike as it improves steering and braking with a normal trekking slick on the rear such as the Continental E-Bike tyre as the suspension causes the rear to spin out on my half studded Schwalbe Snow Stud on icy hills. When recommending and fitting tyres like to tell people about the trekking tyres as it gives them the ability to cycle the same as a normal tyre yet have that additional grip for winter weather not ice or compact snow and that extra traction for off-road dirt road forays. Studded tyres for me are ideal for all year round use as they are brilliant in flooded muddy roads not just ice and snow so in light of this plan to replace my trekking tyres with the Continental Nordic Spike front/rear on one of my hybrid bikes. So tend to use mainly trekking type tyres as the cost of winter tyres is unaffordable so will only have one half converted, the other fully converted. Found in North America they like to use a studded tyre on the front with a normal rear and so far it has worked well though know my bike will spin out on ice.
ChrisButch wrote:The width may be a lot less than the nominal 37, but I gather they have quite a high profile, and that's the critical dimension under the mudguard pinch points at the fork crown or seatstay bridge. If you have the type of audax or 'winter training' frame built for deep-drop sidepulls and guards, I think these will be a struggle to fit unless the guards are removed, which rather cancels the point. With most of the frames I've had of this type I've found even fitting a normal 32 touring tyre is difficult, and even if you manage to get the wheel spinning at home the pinch points are so tight that they soon clog up with compacted mud.
The tread is a few millimetres deep, so they have a profile a few millimetres higher than a slick tyre of the same width. I don't remember saying they would fit under dual pivot brakes, and I don't remember anybody asking.
This was the terrible accident in (I realise now) 2006. It seemed much more recent. I mentioned it, perhaps erroneously, to draw attention to the fact that ice is unforgiving, although it was the car that skidded.
It was no 'accident'. The car skidded on ice on a very cold morning,on three(no less)defective tyres,on a bend whilst being driven at or near the 50mph limit. The driver was fined £200+points.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Sorry, I was just reiterating the point I made earlier in the thread, and on other threads on the same subject: that if you do have a frame with those constraints, there is no unstudded winter-specific-tread tyre equivalent to the Top Contact Winter currently available, except the very narrow (23) Michelin Pro4 Grip.
I agree that it isnt a good solution but a pair of the 30C Winter Studs that I linked to earlier, do have a winter compound and tread and the studs can be removed.
That doesnt stop them being built like car tyres and weighing 800g each though.
was greeted this morning by a very thin & very slippery layer of ice for my commute. my continental winter contacts didn't like it at all - would have been better to have studs for the route in today but not to be. i decided to walk.
Having had a deluge of snow on Boxing night, I have now tested my bike a few times whilst fitted with Continental Top Contact Winter tyres - they're the winter compound, non-studded ones.
I commuted to and from work on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday on the bike. I've kept upright on all occasions. The type of riding that I've been doing can only really be described as 'careful'. I haven't been going around corners at speed as I'm at an age now where I no longer bounce if I hit the ground - plus I don't want to look like a numpty if I do fall off.
Anyway, tested early on Monday morning in a hard frost. Tried reasonable braking and tried to wheelspin - no traction was lost. Tested on slushy snow on the main roads, managed to keep going without skidding. On my ride home from work, rode uphill along our street from the end where the people are too lazy to clear the snow so there was eight inches of snow compacted down to an inch or so into an icy sheet. Again, tried wheelspinning - I could do this but it took some doing. The main issue with riding on the type of snow surface was the unevenness of the snow - there were wheel ruts which meant that ridges two of three inches high had formed - these were quite difficult to navigate.
When I went along the same roads in the car with normal tyres on, I found that touching the brakes would cause the ABS to kick in severely - this was with far less deceleration than I could achieve on the bike. Similarly, it was very easy to lose traction through ever so slight use of the accelerator.
In conclusion, I'm quite pleased with the winter tyres. I have chosen to take things steady - normally when riding into work when on earlies I get an average speed of around 20 mph. On Monday that was down to just over 12 mph. I haven't tested on smooth ice that had formed through water freezing - but may do if I pluck up the courage on the next cold snap. My only regret is that, despite me saying for the last five years that I'm going to buy winter tyres for the car, I haven't yet. I think that had we got some on on Boxing evening, I wouldn't have had to abandon the car three miles from home.
Went out yesterday on the bike. We had snow over the weekend and surprisingly most roads were clear. Occasionally I'd come across a road that had snow turned to slush turned to ice on it. The worse thing about this is the uneven surface meaning that the wheels get jolted about a bit. However, I did try to wheelspin (can you tell that these tyres are still a bit of a novelty) and actually managed to pull a wheely on compacted snow.
This was the worst that I came across: Despite it looking like an uphill stretch, it's actually a downhill section - would normally be doing about 30 mph on my slow commuting bike. Managed to do a leisurely 10 mph on my bike - I don't think that the fella in a Jag in front was quite as relaxed about it .
Oh, tyres are the Continental Top Contact Winter II non-studded tyres.
I thought winter tires were more compliant (not sure the word is correct) for cold weather. as opposed to normal tires that were less flexible in the cold.
maxcherry wrote:I thought winter tires were more compliant (not sure the word is correct) for cold weather. as opposed to normal tires that were less flexible in the cold.
They use a softer rubber compound to mimic how a normal tyre behaves in warmer conditions. Basically. As far as I'm concerned, its a con. 20+ years of using normal tyres in the winter have never once let me down unless I hit ice. Any tyre that can't dig into the ice regardless of how soft it is will ime, slip.
Bill
“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
maxcherry wrote:I thought winter tires were more compliant (not sure the word is correct) for cold weather. as opposed to normal tires that were less flexible in the cold.
They use a softer rubber compound to mimic how a normal tyre behaves in warmer conditions. Basically. As far as I'm concerned, its a con. 20+ years of using normal tyres in the winter have never once let me down unless I hit ice. Any tyre that can't dig into the ice regardless of how soft it is will ime, slip.
I dont suppose that you can be convinced otherwise but try watching this.
Your vid showed big heavy cars on snow whereas I'm talking about lightweight bikes on ice. Nothing sticks to ice except more ice as it melts. Not even the softest, most snow grabbing widest tyres on the planet. Within reason, a wide tread and low pressures can get almost any bike through a snow blizzard but I don't buy the whole "snow sticks to snow" thing that the presenters on that vid were talking about for the simple reason that bicycle tyres imo just aren't wide enough for that little bit of snow to make any difference. Ice requires something with an edge that can bite into it for grip. Think Torvill & Dean on ice skates rather than on roller blades
Bill
“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
I thought that you were denying that they had any benefits in cold weather and were a total con. Even if we think the commentator's theories originated from his six year old's primary school teacher, I am quite convinced that the winter tyres make an enormous difference in snow. I would like to see the test repeated against some more knobbly car tyres that have some off-road inclinations to see if it is just having some tread with a bit of bite that makes them work.
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