JTEK shiftmate conversion Shimano 10 to 9-speed

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
GregLR
Posts: 77
Joined: 3 Mar 2011, 10:06am

JTEK shiftmate conversion Shimano 10 to 9-speed

Postby GregLR » 28 Sep 2014, 1:03am

A friend has asked me whether I think the model #2 JTEK shiftmate would be effective for achieving shifting on a 9-speed Shimano cassette using 10-speed Shimano 105 shifters with cable routing under the handlebar tape (on special at Wiggle at the moment). He’s considering buying a touring bike that has bar end shifters (which he’s not attracted to & the idea is to replace them with the 105 shifters) in combination with a Deore rear mech & an Altus MTB front mech. My friend wants to be able to mount a handlebar bag without the problem of cables protruding from 9-speed STI shifters.

A search for ‘JTEK’ on this forum did not yield any comments with first-hand experience on this question though an internet search yielded positive comments about the shiftmate mechanism. The SJS Cycles website product description for shiftmate (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/jtek-shiftma ... 7/?geoc=au ) says that shifting would perform “equally or better than original factory components”, while another site http://www.blackmtncycles.com/2008/07/w ... today.html suggested that getting acceptable shifting might not be straightforward.

There’s also the question of how the Altus MTB front mech would mate with the 10-speed front shifter – & whether a shiftmate mechanism for the front changer would also be needed. The forum search that I did produced a couple of comments along the following lines: “The STI uses a different cable pull to the MTB front mech a shiftmate can be used to change the cable pull. I bought one from SJS and found it worked well.” So it seems like the answer is that a front shiftmate mechanism might be needed.

I was wondering if anybody on the forum has first-hand experience re these questions or otherwise can make informed comment.

BTW, I have Dura-Ace down-tube shifters on both of my touring bikes, so I have no experience with the JTEK mechanism, but my wife's two touring bikes do have Shimergo attempts to marry Campagnolo Ergo shifters with Shimano 9-speed gearing (the Hubbub cable connection for 10-speed Ergo shifters on one bike and 11-speed Athena changers on the other, which Chas Roberts Cycles said would work perfectly but don't). So the shiftmate solution appears like it offers potential there (though there doesn't appear to be a model for converting 11-speed Campag to 9-speed Shimano).

Greg

RRSODL
Posts: 173
Joined: 17 Apr 2012, 7:22am

Re: JTEK shiftmate conversion Shimano 10 to 9-speed

Postby RRSODL » 28 Sep 2014, 1:46am

One observation only. Campagnolo 10 to shimano 8 sp cassette and Campagnolo 11 to 9sp cassette - no need for shifmate.

GregLR
Posts: 77
Joined: 3 Mar 2011, 10:06am

Re: JTEK shiftmate conversion Shimano 10 to 9-speed

Postby GregLR » 28 Sep 2014, 7:17am

RRSODL wrote:One observation only. Campagnolo 10 to shimano 8 sp cassette and Campagnolo 11 to 9sp cassette - no need for shiftmate.

Thanks for your comment, RRSODL - do you mean Campagnolo 11 to Shimano 9 speed ? If so, I'd be interested to know if you have first hand experience with this.

I ask because over the past three years I've made countless attempts, and spent many hours, to try to get this to work on my wife's tourer - without success - after getting the idea off the Chas Roberts website. No matter what adjustments I make, her gear changes still skip a cog somewhere along the cassette, usually in the lower gears (larger cogs).

Missed gear changes on hills is detracting a lot from my wife's enjoyment of cycling, so I've bought a pair of DA 9-speed DT shifters and plan to instal the right DT changer to overcome this problem once & for all (while leaving the front Ergo changer as it is, since it works well with an early 90s Deore XT front mech, after a lot of adjustment work initially) - unless I hear of another viable solution. She likes to use a handlebar bag and in any case doesn't like the look of 9-speed STI changers with 'washing line' cables.

Greg

pete75
Posts: 13696
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: JTEK shiftmate conversion Shimano 10 to 9-speed

Postby pete75 » 28 Sep 2014, 8:20am

Campag 10 to Shimano 9 with slight adjustment of cable clamp on rear dérailleur. Yes I do have first hand experience of this and it works well. Full details here http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/ ... s/shimergo . These levers will do the job . Don't bother about them being described as double - I've had them on two different triple setups without any problems.
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... 9000000000

RRSODL
Posts: 173
Joined: 17 Apr 2012, 7:22am

Re: JTEK shiftmate conversion Shimano 10 to 9-speed

Postby RRSODL » 28 Sep 2014, 8:31am

Hi,
I really don't know what the problem might be. I have two bikes working with 10 speed shifters and 8 speed cassette and derailleur (shimano) - never a problem. Then I bought a set of record 11 speed shifters. The bike has shimano 9 speed cassette and derailleur. No special cable configuration. I find that 10 - 8 setup is very slightly better than 11 - 9. In very few occasions I find that shifting down requires shifting up and down again. Not often enough to condider it a problem. I have similar issues with my MTB and that is all shimano.
I wonder if the cables might contribute to your problem.

tim_f
Posts: 248
Joined: 12 Oct 2009, 10:37pm

Re: JTEK shiftmate conversion Shimano 10 to 9-speed

Postby tim_f » 28 Sep 2014, 10:05am

why not just fit a 10 speed rear cassette and a 10 speed chain ? If one buys online these can be inexpensicve.

Front mech is more problematic, a road front mech might work - but it depends on chain line.

rjb
Posts: 4293
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: JTEK shiftmate conversion Shimano 10 to 9-speed

Postby rjb » 28 Sep 2014, 1:52pm

I think you can loose a gear by using the hubbub cable clamp method on the rear mech. Search on sheldon brown for it. No cost involved. :wink:
Found it - http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html
scroll down to alternate cable routing and all is explained.
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

keyboardmonkey
Posts: 801
Joined: 1 Dec 2009, 5:05pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: JTEK shiftmate conversion Shimano 10 to 9-speed

Postby keyboardmonkey » 29 Sep 2014, 7:30pm

GregLR wrote:A friend... [is] considering buying a touring bike that has bar end shifters (which he’s not attracted to & the idea is to replace them with the 105 shifters) in combination with a Deore rear mech & an Altus MTB front mech. My friend wants to be able to mount a handlebar bag without the problem of cables protruding from 9-speed STI shifters.


You've considered the hubhub method, and other workarounds, but for the price of just one shiftmate your friend could buy, say, a Shimano 105 front mech and a Deore 10sp 11-34 cassette. You could just about get away with the 9sp Deore rear mech with this set up (but less so with a 36T sprocket without shelling out for a 'Shadow' rear mech).

I believe that elsewhere on this forum you will find confirmation that you can get away with a 9sp chainset and 10sp chain (the chain could be had for £15 or less). However, you don't mention the number of teeth on the existing chainset. Is it perhaps a 'trekking' one (maybe 48/36/26) or an MTB (perhaps 44/32/22)? You could get away with a 105 front derailleur and the trekking chainset, less so the MTB sort. And is the bike to be bought new or second hand? If new could your friend specify these 'upgrades' at point of sale?

(I would suggest going crazy and fitting a 10sp chainset, but with, say, current Shimano 105 5703 triple you get external bearings, and that's a whole new can of ball games... Oh, and with Shimano 105 5703 triple chainset get a 5600 or 6600 chain - 5701 chain is by all accounts not happy with a triple chainset.)

drossall
Posts: 5127
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 10:01pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: JTEK shiftmate conversion Shimano 10 to 9-speed

Postby drossall » 30 Sep 2014, 12:06am

I've used a ShiftMate and been very happy, in my case for 10-speed Ergos with 9-speed Shimano derailleurs and cassette. It works well. I'm planning to fit another, this time on my trike, but with Campag gears and Shimano cassette.

GregLR
Posts: 77
Joined: 3 Mar 2011, 10:06am

Re: JTEK shiftmate conversion Shimano 10 to 9-speed

Postby GregLR » 30 Sep 2014, 5:45am

Many thanks RRSODL, Pete75, tim_f, rjb, keyboardmonkey & drossall, for all your helpful comments & suggestions re various aspects of my friend's Shimano 10 to 9 speed conversion plan and the Shimergo difficulties on my wife's bikes (I'll address those comments in a separate post).

The bike being considered by my friend Bill is a Fuji tourer: http://australia.fujibikes.com/bike/details/touring It has a Deore 48/36/26T crankset with external bearings and a Shimano Altus MTB front mech.

Converting the bike to 10-speed to match the 105 shifters, as suggested by tim_f & powermonkey, would require some extra outlay in addition to the 105 STI shifters - but, as keyboardmonkey implied, perhaps not a great deal extra over the cost of JTEK shiftmate for the rear mech (& possibly the front due to the MTB front mech on the Fuji). The extras would be: a Deore 10-speed cassette (about £20); a 10-speed chain (under £15), which apparently will work with a 9-speed crankset; and, probably, a 10-speed 105 front mech (about £20, on sale at CRC at the moment).

keyboardmonkey: as you imply, there is doubt whether an MTB front mech (Altus in this case) would work with the 10-speed front shifter. Are you suggesting a 105 double front mech or the triple ? I've read elsewhere that the double might work best because, even though it is narrower between the plates, it has a flat & low/narrow inner plate rather than the ridged & tall/wide inner plates that are now used on triple front mechs to mate with specific chainring combinations.

I have encountered this sort of problem previously when building up both my wife's and my new tourers in 2011 - I ended up using early 90s XT front mechs on both bikes because I couldn't get modern triple front mechs to work with the Sugino/Spa XD cranksets (mine 46/36/26; hers 44/33/24) because those ridged inner plates caused the chain to jam on some shifts.

Thanks again for all the helpful comments. I've shown them to Bill & will be talking with him about this on a ride tomorrow.

Greg

Brucey
Posts: 42931
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: JTEK shiftmate conversion Shimano 10 to 9-speed

Postby Brucey » 30 Sep 2014, 7:45am

rjb wrote:I think you can loose a gear by using the hubbub cable clamp method on the rear mech. Search on sheldon brown for it. No cost involved. :wink:
Found it - http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html
scroll down to alternate cable routing and all is explained.


-sort of. The hubbub method is to reduce the mech throw per click. In this case the OP needs to increase the mech throw per click. To do this the cable should be moved the other way on the mech. This is the same kind of approach as needed when you use a 'new' (9s or more) Dura Ace rear mech with 'old' Dura Ace shifters; typically the cable needs to be moved to the other side of the pinch bolt, or at least the other side of a tab or something. Sometimes this needs a new/modified tab washer.

I've used this kind of setup and indeed it works and it costs virtually nothing. But there is one small snag; the cable is more than normally prone to rubbing where it exits the barrel adjuster on the mech. This does mean that the cable might fail a little sooner than normal.

cheers
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~