Shimano STI cable pull - 11 speed

[BarryS]

Does anyone know ( or can measure) the cable pull for the rear Shimano 11 speed road STI (RH) shifter?
I am considering trying to use this with a 10 speed rear wheel - if I can work out what der/cogs might work.
Only because I have lots of wheels that I can't readily adapt to 11 speed cassettes, but I would be quite happy to loose one click if I can get the shift pitch correct.

[foxyrider]

you don't need an 11 rear wheel afaik just the cassette!

[BarryS]

But an 11 speed cassette is wider so doesnt fit on a 10 speed hub

[Mick F]

I'm not sure about that.
Campag's offerings are basically the same width 9sp 10sp and 11sp, or at least they'll fit on the same hub.

Are you saying that Shimano 11sp cassette won't go on a 9sp hub?

[BarryS]

No I'm not saying that, I am not sure of my facts on this yet (hence question to the group).
I haven't bought or measured 11 speed STIs or cassette yet - trying to work out if I could use them first.

My cassette sizing comment is based on Shimano stating you can't put 11speed cassette on older hubs (10 or other) BUT you can put 10 speed cassette on newer 11 speed hubs with the addition of a spacer. So my inference from this is that the 11 speed cassette is wider, anyone got one to measure?

[NetworkMan]

I have a data sheet from rosebikes which mentions this. It says that 11 speed is 1.85 mm wider but you can mount 10, 9, 8 speed on the splines with a spacer of 1.85 mm. To get the data sheet look up the data for almost any Shimano cassette on rosebikes.co.uk and you'll see a box labelled INFO - that is the data sheet.

[pete75]

A Shimano 11 speed cassette will not fit on a Shimano hub designed for 10 speed max. An 11 speed hub uses a spacer for 10 speed. Campag 11 speed will fit on a Campag 10 speed hub.

Some info here http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/09/ ... eed_301392

[recordacefromnew]

Are you saying that Shimano 11sp cassette won't go on a 9sp hub?

It depends on who made the freehub. See http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Cassette_How-To_-_Part_2_3257.html

The 11 speed mechs' cable pull ratios are different, in case you are thinking about using 11 speed road shifters with 8/9/10 speed road mechs. See http://www.celebrazio.net/bicycling/shimano/2014_compatibility.html and http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/02/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-revisiting-drivetrain-cross-compatibility_316828

[Mick F]

Campag 11sp will fit on a Campag 9sp 10sp hub.
Same splines same width same lockring.

This is from their latest catalogue:

[bryce]

The Shimergo page indicates that 10 speed cassettes should run on 11 speed drivetrains about as well as any other Shimergo set-up. It's just in this case the shifter and derailleur match but not the cassette. I'm thinking about moving to that set-up.

There's been various reports of 10 speed wheels working with 11 speed drivetrains on Lennard Zinns velonews FAQ.

Shimano 8-10 speed cassettes all work on the same hubs, and Campagnolo 9-11 speed cassettes are the same. The spacing of both Campagnolo and Shimano cogs are the same for 11 speed.

You should be able to use your Shimano 10 speed wheels and cassettes on an 11 speed bike with a spare click.

[BarryS]

Thanks all, what I have learned so far.

1. Shimano and Campag 11 speed cassettes have the same pitch, 3.85mm.
2. Shimano 11 speed cassette is wider than shimano 10 speed cassette (not quite sure how much, but enough that 11 can't replace 10).
3. Campag 11 cassette will replace shimano 10 but would require new freehub. and this wont work for the wheels I'm thinking of ( but is actually a good option where applicable, thanks MickF).
4. Shimano 11 speed road STi& 11 speed road der moves 3.85mm per click (shimano 10 speed cassette pitch is 3.95mm, so the total error is less than 1mm across the whole cassette, so this is probably good enought to try out).
5. Shimano 11 speed road STi and 10 speed road der. moves ???mm per click. This is the one I am most interested in, hence the questions of how much cable this shifter pulls.

Any more info gratefully received.

[Brucey]

the shift ratio is completely different; if you pair a shimano 11s shifter with a 10s road mech the mech will move waaaaay too much each click. You could probably use if for indexing a 7s cassette or something.

I don't know exactly what the new shift ratio is but one suggestion is that it is 'Dynasys for the road' i.e. that it might be the same shift ratio as shimano MTB 10s, i.e. that it is around 3.4mm cable pull per click.

cheers

[bryce]

Why does the exact cable pull matter? If you use 11 speed shifters and rear mechs you should be able to run 10 speed wheels and cassettes, as you outlined above.

If 11 speed Shimano road cable pull matches 10 speed Shimano mountain cable pull that might be interesting to the alpine double crowd.

[Spinners]

I'm in the process of moving from Campag to Shimano and there's a lot to learn!

[Brucey]

Why does the exact cable pull matter? If you use 11 speed shifters and rear mechs you should be able to run 10 speed wheels and cassettes, as you outlined above.

yes but that isn't what the OP wants to do in the first instance.

If 11 speed Shimano road cable pull matches 10 speed Shimano mountain cable pull that might be interesting to the alpine double crowd.

-indeedy.

cheers