CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

For discussions about bikes and equipment.
david.625
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Oct 2014, 6:34pm

CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby david.625 » 13 Oct 2014, 7:42pm

I am currently planning the build for a Genesis Croix de Fer frameset which is due to arrive at the end of the week. I am seeking some feedback on the chainset, shifters and the rest of the gearing.

The bike will be a commuter, light tourer, and week end fun-ride do-it-all bike, with a daily 15+15 mile commute. I am not a competitive cyclist, but can imagine some long distance recreational races in the future.

So. The plan is to go shimergo because I love the feel of Campy shifters, and don't really like Shimano, but want to keep the cost down and have a low and wider range. Thus Veloce 10 speed, with a shiftmate solution and a 10 speed Deore or XT casette, 11-32 in the back. The chainset will likely be Spa's own, but I have to stay away from the triple because of cost, event though I kind of want one. The alternative solution is a low geared compact, as my 11 cog should keep me in the clear even with a big ring of only 46 teeth. To get down to a low 30T small ring, I am planning on getting a Spa triple, but replacing the outer ring with a chain guard. This is run by a standard Veloce front mech.

In summary: Vecloce 10sp brifters - XT 10sp 11-32 cassette, XT 10sp rear mech with shiftmate, 30-46 compact on a triple crank with chain guard, veloce front mech. 25-113 gear inches.

Would this all work? Any thoughts or comments? Am I making life too complicated to myself? :? It seems pretty straight forward. :mrgreen:

bryce
Posts: 110
Joined: 11 Mar 2014, 9:02pm

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby bryce » 13 Oct 2014, 10:17pm

Use a Shimano mountain/flat bar triple mech. It's probably cheaper than the Campagnolo double, or the same price as a Veloce from Ribble.

RRSODL
Posts: 173
Joined: 17 Apr 2012, 7:22am

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby RRSODL » 15 Oct 2014, 8:17am

I have:
Veloce shifters with triple chainring and 12 - 32 cassette
Veloce shifters with compact chainring and 12 - 32 cassete. This is enough for me and the triple (above) it's too much.

You would know better what is best for you though. A long cage rear derailleur is needed for a 32t cassette.

david.625
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Oct 2014, 6:34pm

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby david.625 » 15 Oct 2014, 8:29am

Thanks fot the comments.

Bryce, this wouldn't work with ergopower levers, would it?

Yeah, feeling like triples are not worth it. Is it a really bad idea to mount 30/46 and chainguard on a triple crank though, and go with standard compact rear derailleur (band-on mounting)? Considering that 11-32 is a lot cheaper than 12-32, and the guard will come in handy for commuting?

hamster
Posts: 3786
Joined: 2 Feb 2007, 12:42pm

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby hamster » 15 Oct 2014, 10:32am

As the bike will be a commuter and rack up some fairly big mileages, I would be tempted to go with 8 speed. With a Shimano 8/9 speed rear mech the cable pull for 8 speed is coincidentally exactly the same as Campag 10. So you don't need the shiftmate thingy and also have the advantage of a wider and more durable chain. Just a thought...

Smut Pedaller
Posts: 87
Joined: 2 Jan 2012, 7:42pm

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby Smut Pedaller » 15 Oct 2014, 4:02pm

I recently converted my CDF to use a Shimano 11-32t cassette with everything else Campagnolo Athena with a 50/34t compact crank. Swapped out the standard rear derailleur for a long cage Athena one. I documented my setup here http://smutpedaller.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/campagnolo-wi-fli-wide-range-gearing.html

http://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
According to this note however, the Campagnolo 10 and 11 speed sprocket spacing varies over the range whereas spacing for Shimano sprockets is constant. I used to run my setup with a Campagnolo cassette and the shifts in the smallest sprockets might have been a teeny bit quicker, However in usage the Shimano cassette shifts great throughout the whole range.

Any reason not to just go with a long cage Campag rear derailleur instead of a Shimano RD and shiftmate?
smutpedaller.blogspot.com

david.625
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Oct 2014, 6:34pm

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby david.625 » 15 Oct 2014, 7:31pm

Smut Pedaller wrote:Any reason not to just go with a long cage Campag rear derailleur instead of a Shimano RD and shiftmate?


Only that I have previously assumed it was not possible. If you say it works, I might be willing to try (would it require 11sp shifters or are 10sp ok as well?) A campy RD is almost the same price as a Tiagra/105 RD plus shiftmate though, so is not that a safer bet?

Love your CdF by the way!

bryce
Posts: 110
Joined: 11 Mar 2014, 9:02pm

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby bryce » 15 Oct 2014, 9:29pm

Campagnolo shifters have the same cable pull as Shimano mountain front derailleurs. Described in this current thread. I'm running Chorus shifters, with a Shimano 10 speed cassette, and a 9 speed flat bar road front derailleur.

For the rear derailleur, you could either use a Shimano derailleur with hubbub routing (look at the main Shimergo page) or a Campagnolo rear derailleur. I'm using the former and thinking about moving to the latter when I next change my chain. Smut Pedaller's set-up is interesting.

Smut Pedaller how does the Athena left hand thumb button work? Is it possible to use the left thumb button to move one click of trim down, or does it drop the chain all the way down to the inner ring? Oh, it looks like you've older Athena Ultrashift shifters.

Smut Pedaller
Posts: 87
Joined: 2 Jan 2012, 7:42pm

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby Smut Pedaller » 23 Oct 2014, 12:33am

david.625 wrote:
Smut Pedaller wrote:Any reason not to just go with a long cage Campag rear derailleur instead of a Shimano RD and shiftmate?


Only that I have previously assumed it was not possible. If you say it works, I might be willing to try (would it require 11sp shifters or are 10sp ok as well?) A campy RD is almost the same price as a Tiagra/105 RD plus shiftmate though, so is not that a safer bet?

Love your CdF by the way!


Good point, Campagnolo stuff is expensive the Veloce long cage RD is like £60-70... it looks like the sprocket spacing is a little off between Shimano and Campagnolo for 10s at least, although Bryce above says his setup works (Campag shifters & Shimano Cassette & Derailleur). I guess I've never liked the idea of the shift mates TBH. Thanks! Good to see another CDF.
smutpedaller.blogspot.com

Smut Pedaller
Posts: 87
Joined: 2 Jan 2012, 7:42pm

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby Smut Pedaller » 23 Oct 2014, 12:35am

bryce wrote:Campagnolo shifters have the same cable pull as Shimano mountain front derailleurs. Described in this current thread. I'm running Chorus shifters, with a Shimano 10 speed cassette, and a 9 speed flat bar road front derailleur.

For the rear derailleur, you could either use a Shimano derailleur with hubbub routing (look at the main Shimergo page) or a Campagnolo rear derailleur. I'm using the former and thinking about moving to the latter when I next change my chain. Smut Pedaller's set-up is interesting.

Smut Pedaller how does the Athena left hand thumb button work? Is it possible to use the left thumb button to move one click of trim down, or does it drop the chain all the way down to the inner ring? Oh, it looks like you've older Athena Ultrashift shifters.


Yes I have the first generation of 11s Athena, which was basically Chrous with different logos. Lucky for me they downgraded the shifters and the crankset in the subsequent years. The left hand shifter has four positions which are roughly equal which allows for a trim position in both big and small rings.
smutpedaller.blogspot.com

david.625
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Oct 2014, 6:34pm

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby david.625 » 5 Jan 2015, 9:22am

Well, this is what the bike came to. I went with my original plan, but thanks everyone for the input. It's not done quite yet: I need to cut the steerer tube, put on a pair of GB mudguards, a brooks saddle, and a rack or two, but mostly it is there and the photos are from just after the first half hour test ride. The bike is meant to be joyful, beautiful and not overly expensive. It will be used for commuting, light(ish) touring and week-end trips (and hopefully a bit of audax.)

Shifters are new Veloces. Wheels are H Plus Archetypes, Deore XT in rear, SP dynohub in front, both 32 spokes. My first time building wheels, it was fun. :)

CdF-1.jpg


Below is the rear set up; 10 speed 11-32 Deore, medium cage 105 and Shiftmate #3. Rear shifting is crisp and responsive. And I like to be able to tighten the cable since the shiftmate takes away 90 degrees from the bend.

CdF-2.jpg


Front is a custom 30/46 mounted on a triple crank (Spa) which allows me to fit a stronglight chainguard, as I am going to use this for commuting and some quite relaxed riding. Front mech is Veloce, though I considered a SRAM Yaw, so I could get all three on there. :) Shifting is ok, mostly because of the use of an outer ring as a middle (thus the ramps are on the wrong side). It always shifts without problem though, so it does what it needs to and I'm rarely on the smaller ring. With my ergopower shifters I should be able to go to a triple set up at very low expense should I want to, but I get 25-113 gear inches as set up.

CdF-4.jpg


Went for a bit of a splurge on the brakes and went with HY/RD instead of Spyres (really couldn't avoid it after they went on the stock CfD). Braking is nice, though I haven't really tested them much. Set up was a breeze, even for a beginner like me. The tyres are Vittoria Hypers, 32 mm wide. 50/70 psi seems about right. The frame has clearance for significantly wider tyres, should I want to go off road.

CdF-5.jpg


Again thanks to all, and particularly Smut Pedaller, as your bike was a major inspiration!

User avatar
foxyrider
Posts: 5251
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 10:25am
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby foxyrider » 5 Jan 2015, 9:46am

are you sure thats a medium cage rm? looks exceedingly long
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

david.625
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Oct 2014, 6:34pm

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby david.625 » 5 Jan 2015, 10:14am

foxyrider wrote:are you sure thats a medium cage rm? looks exceedingly long


According to wiggle it is (and there are no long cage ones). Can't say I think it matters though, it works just fine.

Edit: To clarify, it is not a short cage one, and I believe there are only two versions. So whether they are called long or medium seems inconsequential.
Last edited by david.625 on 5 Jan 2015, 12:55pm, edited 1 time in total.

Psamathe
Posts: 12277
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby Psamathe » 5 Jan 2015, 10:39am

david.625 wrote:
foxyrider wrote:are you sure thats a medium cage rm? looks exceedingly long


According to wiggle it is (and there are no long cage ones). Can't say I think it matters though, it works just fine.

I got a 105 rear derailleur juse before Christmas and still have the box and there are two versions (ignoring the colour choice). On the box it is expressed as the largest rear cog size and the two options are:
  • 2x10 max 30 (RD-5701-SS)
  • 2x10 max 32 (or 3x10 max 30) (RD-5701-GS)

Mine was a max 2x10 30 (shorter one) and looking at the photo I would definitely say that is longer than mine.

Ian

samsbike
Posts: 1159
Joined: 13 Oct 2012, 2:05pm

Re: CdF (shimergo) gearing set up

Postby samsbike » 6 Jan 2015, 9:09pm

that's a great looking build. What do you think of the charge saddle?