new steel touring frame advice

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dlv13
Posts: 46
Joined: 8 Apr 2013, 10:42am

new steel touring frame advice

Postby dlv13 » 18 Oct 2014, 12:12pm

my old runabout bike frame is coming to the end of its life , so i am thinking about retiring my touring frame to runabout use and getting a new frame for touring , most of the parts from both bikes are still good so i would use the combination of these and some new parts to build two new bikes . my old touring frame is reynolds 531 and i have been totally content with its performance , so i would like something similar to replace it . new steel frame tubing has appeared since i got this frame which i know nothing about , what should i be looking at for touring /camping use . i am totally UN-interested in carbon / alu / titanium . it must be steel . a surly cross check is favorite just now as it seems to tick most of my boxes.its made from 4130 CroMoly . how does this compare to 531 ?
i am interested to hear opinions and suggestions, anyone got a surly cross check what do they think ?

Brucey
Posts: 42310
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby Brucey » 18 Oct 2014, 12:21pm

it might help if you say what kind of 531 it was, how big a frame it was, what kind of surfaces you ride on, what kind of tyres you prefer to use, how strong/heavy you are and how heavy a load the frame is to carry.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

dlv13
Posts: 46
Joined: 8 Apr 2013, 10:42am

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby dlv13 » 18 Oct 2014, 12:46pm

current frame is 531 st
size seat tube centre to centre 22, 3/4 inches approx
size top tube c to c 22, 3/4 inches approx
tyres at moment 700 by 37 mm conti sport contact
ridden on roads mostly
i weigh about 70 kg
use low gears to climb hills
dont usually carry more than 15kg in four panniers

pete75
Posts: 13651
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby pete75 » 18 Oct 2014, 1:28pm

What about the Spa touring frame then? http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... 0s143p2984 It gets good reviews.

mercalia
Posts: 14578
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby mercalia » 18 Oct 2014, 4:54pm

in what way is the current run about frame coming to end of its life? bits falling off? cracking joints?

Brucey
Posts: 42310
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby Brucey » 18 Oct 2014, 5:11pm

I reckon you don't need anything too heavily built so maybe the cross check is a good choice. Most modern frames have a 1-1/8" steerer and this tends to make the forks ride a bit stiffer even with otherwise similar fork blades.

If you want low-rider bosses and cantis then many other bikes that have these fittings are built a fair bit heavier than you need. If you are fussy about how the low rider bosses are done then this narrows the choice still further.

Hewitt Cheviot is worth a look (even though it has surface mounted LR braze-ons)

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

in4time
Posts: 90
Joined: 13 Jun 2010, 4:55pm

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby in4time » 18 Oct 2014, 6:17pm

Thorn Audax, unless you want to carry the kitchen sink. There is one s/h for sale on the Thorn Cycles forum now. On the SJS site there are some Thorn Audaxes for sale with a lower spec but at a good price.

The Thorn Club Tour is worth a look or if you want a rohloff try the Nomad or Raven.

http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/

dlv13
Posts: 46
Joined: 8 Apr 2013, 10:42am

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby dlv13 » 18 Oct 2014, 7:23pm

spa tourer looks good will definatly consider same price as the surly that they sell as well .
the old run about bike is a much used alu framed steel forked hybrid , the threads have gone in the b/b, fitted a nice threadless stonglight that lasted a few years but when that failed they no longer seemed to be available. ive got through a few of the cheaper ones that are available now, quality seems variable. ive also had problems with them coming loose,, so in desperation,,, i epoxy glued the last one in :D so when it fails i do not know if it will come out ,,, the forks are starting to get very rusty on the outside and i wonder what the inside is like ,the only original bits left are frame /forks / handle bars . everything else has been changed at least once.. ive definitely had my money s worth from this bike .
the thorn s might be a bit out of my price range and i definitely want just a frame, as i like my current set up and the bit s are still good some quite new

pete75
Posts: 13651
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby pete75 » 18 Oct 2014, 7:32pm

dlv13 wrote:spa tourer looks good will definatly consider same price as the surly that they sell as well .
the old run about bike is a much used alu framed steel forked hybrid , the threads have gone in the b/b, fitted a nice threadless stonglight that lasted a few years but when that failed they no longer seemed to be available. ive got through a few of the cheaper ones that are available now, quality seems variable. ive also had problems with them coming loose,, so in desperation,,, i epoxy glued the last one in :D so when it fails i do not know if it will come out ,,, the forks are starting to get very rusty on the outside and i wonder what the inside is like ,the only original bits left are frame /forks / handle bars . everything else has been changed at least once.. ive definitely had my money s worth from this bike .
the thorn s might be a bit out of my price range and i definitely want just a frame, as i like my current set up and the bit s are still good some quite new



If you're interested in a Surly LHT frame Triton cycles do them for £280 http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/frames-fo ... ting%2Bads and the cross check for the same http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/frames-fo ... set-p10934

It's difficult to see what a Thorn Club Tour offers over the LHT or Spa for the extra 200 quid......

blackbike
Posts: 2492
Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 3:21pm

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby blackbike » 18 Oct 2014, 10:12pm

mercalia wrote:in what way is the current run about frame coming to end of its life? bits falling off? cracking joints?


That's a good question.

My 1990ish 531ST frame is has a few dents and is covered in many layers of carelessly applied black Hammerite paint to stop rust. The BB threads are stripped and I now use threadless BBs.

But it still rides as well as it did on the day I bought it.

As long as a good frame is structurally sound and the attached components are of reasonable quality you've got yourself a good bike.

Brucey
Posts: 42310
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby Brucey » 18 Oct 2014, 11:04pm

I had an argu... er 'lively discussion' with the then MD of Dawes in the late 1980's specifically about the tolerances on the threads in the BB shells that they were using at the time. It seemed to me that they were so slack that the connection between the BB cups and the frame had immediately lost about 50% of its strength and that stripped BB threads were thus made a far more likely occurrence.

I didn't use these exact words (if I had maybe they would have stopped doing it) but the gist of my argument was that their BB threads were 'halfway knackered even on brand new bikes'.

Since then I've seen many stripped BB threads, and repaired a few too. It has seemed to me that if they are ridden on when loose, they wear at the bottom of the BB shell and less at the top. One method of thread reinstatement in steel frames is to lay some MIG weld inside the BB shell, around the lower half, then to grind back and then to retap. Because the weld build up is local to that part of the BB shell, there is no difficulty with having to arc weld onto brass or silver based braze metal.

This approach gives a nice strong repair and need not destroy the paint finish on the top of the BB shell (where you can see it) either. If the new BB is to have steel cups the repair need not comprise the full worn area, it'll be quite strong enough without; the weld metal can be a fair bit stronger than the steel the BB shell is made of.

So if you know a chap with a MIG set and a die grinder who knows what he is doing, and you have an LBS with a decent BB tap, you can quite easily save a frame with a stripped BB thread without spending a fortune on it.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Valbrona
Posts: 2400
Joined: 7 Feb 2011, 4:49pm

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby Valbrona » 19 Oct 2014, 12:15pm

Brucey wrote:I didn't use these exact words (if I had maybe they would have stopped doing it) but the gist of my argument was that their BB threads were 'halfway knackered even on brand new bikes'.


This Dawes story, which you have mentioned before, begs my question: By the time you have a frame that needs the threading in the BB shell re-tapped, the threads are already knackered and quite often beyond repair. So, I have never really seen the point of having a BB shell tap in a bicycle workshop. Better just to fit one of those threadless ones.
I should coco.

dlv13
Posts: 46
Joined: 8 Apr 2013, 10:42am

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby dlv13 » 19 Oct 2014, 3:38pm

my frame with the damaged bb threads is aluminium , i am sure there is a way of fixing it but its not worth it as far as i am concerned ,.
still looking at frames , the 2 favourites at the moment are the spa tourer and the surly crosscheck ive been looking into them a bit more and there might be a problem with toe / front wheel overlap with the surly ? this is something i have never experienced with the few bikes ive owned . is it the problem it appears to be or is it one of those things that could happen but never does???

fastpedaller
Posts: 2747
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby fastpedaller » 19 Oct 2014, 5:00pm

Overlap isn't a problem until you get to very low speed, and turn the bars more than usual, eg making a turn in the road, or honking up a very steep hill and zig-zagging. For most it's not an issue, as we rarely turn the steering that far! I await correction!

albal1
Posts: 156
Joined: 2 Feb 2011, 4:09pm

Re: new steel touring frame advice

Postby albal1 » 19 Oct 2014, 6:35pm

Had a similar story tho mine was a steel frame. The BB shell threads were f***d, so I sent it to Argos in Bristol, who reamed out a new thread. Can't remember the cost but it was worth it. I would never touch threadless BB's personally on a used daily bike.