Cycling form - any recommendations please

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Weimarunner
Posts: 108
Joined: 19 Apr 2014, 2:58pm

Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby Weimarunner » 2 Nov 2014, 8:52pm

Please take a look here -

http://weimarunner.tumblr.com/post/1015 ... m-top-tube

Does it look as though my saddle height needs to be raised? Knee angle correct?

I'm also considering a shorter adjustable stem so I can experiment with raising the bars and bringing them in closer a touch, any thoughts?

freeflow
Posts: 1288
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 1:54pm

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby freeflow » 2 Nov 2014, 9:42pm

Limited experience at this but based on a bike fit I had which was a revelation to me I'd say your knee angle is fine but that your saddle is too far forward. Mark the centre of your saddle then measure the distance from the axle to the centre you marked. Then move the saddle backwards and down keeping the axle to saddle centre line the same until you fine a position that suits you. You may find to your surprise you actually need a longer stem.

Also search for 'kops' to read lengthy discussions on bike fit.

As a rule of thumb if your position is good then whilst pedalling you should be able to move your hands from the handle bars to behind your back on the turbo without a change in cadence or changing the tension in your core muscles.

There will be a stampede of advice and conflicting opinions following shortly.

My revelation was that my saddle went back over 5cm and my stem from 80mm to 120mm. All of the hot foot, saddle discomfortx numb hands and stiff neck I'd been having completely dissappeared. I've been so taken with this new position in 200k and 300k Audaxes that my new custom ti frame has a 71 degree seat tube angle so I can get the saddle back far enough.

Weimarunner
Posts: 108
Joined: 19 Apr 2014, 2:58pm

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby Weimarunner » 2 Nov 2014, 9:56pm

That's great, thanks FF, most helpful! When you say axle what do you mean?

Valbrona
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Joined: 7 Feb 2011, 4:49pm

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby Valbrona » 3 Nov 2014, 1:46am

Looks good. However, when analysing saddle height one of your pedals needs to be in the furthest position away from your body.
I should coco.

Weimarunner
Posts: 108
Joined: 19 Apr 2014, 2:58pm

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby Weimarunner » 3 Nov 2014, 6:37am

Thanks Valbrona, the link is a video so you can see the full motion

freeflow
Posts: 1288
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 1:54pm

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby freeflow » 3 Nov 2014, 9:38am

That's great, thanks FF, most helpful! When you say axle what do you mean?


The measurement is from the centre line through the bottom bracket. So the axle/spindle to which the cranks are attached. This is easier to use than the peal axle as it is a fixed point.

What you are trying to find is the position where your muscles are the most relaxed so that you are not using unnecessary energy maintaining a position or supporting your body weight by your arms. This position is a very personal thing depending on your physique and your riding discipline. For some disciplines different may be more relevant as you are maximising explosive power (e.g. TT upto 25 miles, hill climbing, track sprinting) rather than comfort and endurance.

Weimarunner
Posts: 108
Joined: 19 Apr 2014, 2:58pm

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby Weimarunner » 3 Nov 2014, 7:08pm

Many thanks freeflow, I'll spend some more time on the turbo tonight

sreten
Posts: 347
Joined: 29 Sep 2013, 10:59pm

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby sreten » 4 Nov 2014, 2:26am

Hi,

One thing you don't get on a turbo is riding into a headwind, or in fact any sense
of aero on the flat with no wind, which requires a far more aggressive body
position, (i.e. further down) than you'd ever develop on a static trainer.

The positions you adopt on the bars (I have similar bullhorns) are nothing like
the way I ride my bike, and bend my elbows to get down and go faster, I'd
say my elbows are at 90 degrees most of the time riding my bike, with the
various over and undergrips of the bars that you keep moving around.

So your video looks all wrong and its hard to say what is wrong or right,
other than you'd be the type that finds real roads much harder than
you imagine, by having the wrong posture to ride them efficiently.
(And thus not having trained yourself in the proper postures.)

TBH your bike to me simply looks way too small, but I'm not sure,
but thats my kneejerk opinion, could be due to the postures.
(edit : looking again it still looks way too small.)

The shorter stem and lifting the bars is simply turning it into
a static vertical exercise bike, and there are plently of those
that are good exercise, but they are not bike riding, the point
of a turbo is to train using your normal road bike geometry.

rgds, sreten.

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531colin
Posts: 12973
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby 531colin » 4 Nov 2014, 8:40pm

have a look here...http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74985 for basic bike setup and KOPS.
I wasn't clever enough to stop your video and get a picture like this...

Image

....if you can do it, you shouldn't look too different to how I look there on my bike.
One thing that's very obvious is you are pedalling "toe down" all the time, whereas you need to be toe down on the upstroke, and foot level or heel down on the downstroke. I too think you need to put your saddle back, and this can help get your foot level, as can changing cleat position...http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/04/power-to-the-pedal-cleat-position/....actually, read Steve Hogg on saddle position, knees, everything!
It may be counter-intuitive, but pushing the saddle back takes weight off your hands. With the saddle further back, you will be better balanced on the bike, and likely you will be able to take a more aerodynamic position without strain.

Weimarunner
Posts: 108
Joined: 19 Apr 2014, 2:58pm

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby Weimarunner » 4 Nov 2014, 9:33pm

Hi sreten,

Thanks for your input but I think you've misunderstood my post. The video is just to demonstrate my geometry on the bike, I'm looking for advice regarding saddle and handle bar position etc. I'm not training on the turbo, it's just set up to show me on the bike in case people could recommend set up improvements. The vid is not to show my form on a bike.
The frame is a 58cm which feels right to me, my road bike is a 56cm, I'm 6ft with a long reach.

Weimarunner
Posts: 108
Joined: 19 Apr 2014, 2:58pm

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby Weimarunner » 4 Nov 2014, 9:46pm

531colin
Thanks, very handy. Seeing your pic, I done the plumb-line check to align pedal spindle and ball of the foot with the knee and then immediately read an article which completely dismissed it! Lol.
Again, regarding my pedalling, I'm just turning the pedals for the vid rather than demonstrating form.
Thanks for the links and advice.

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531colin
Posts: 12973
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby 531colin » 4 Nov 2014, 10:45pm

Lots of very clever people dismiss KOPS .....and then put a great fat NOTHING in its place.
In fact, saddle position fore and back has little to do with pedalling efficiency (in my view) and a great deal to do with your balance on the bike.
I could have said "move your saddle back until you have so little weight on your hands that you can support that weight with one finger",,,,but that's within a few mm of KOPS anyway.
Get somebody to check if you are toe-down when actually riding, it does make a difference.

Weimarunner
Posts: 108
Joined: 19 Apr 2014, 2:58pm

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby Weimarunner » 4 Nov 2014, 10:55pm

Brilliant, thanks Colin, it makes perfect sense to move the saddle back. I'll have a good read up and then do the necessary alterations. I'll post some pics and pester you for your opinion.
Thanks again

freeflow
Posts: 1288
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 1:54pm

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby freeflow » 15 Nov 2014, 3:30pm

As an follow-up there is a review of bike fitting systems in this weeks cycling weekly. They guy who did my bike fit (Tim Williams) is one of the four. Based on my post bike fit experience I'd thoroughly recommend him.

Weimarunner
Posts: 108
Joined: 19 Apr 2014, 2:58pm

Re: Cycling form - any recommendations please

Postby Weimarunner » 15 Nov 2014, 8:57pm

Thanks FF, I'll take a look.