winter compound tyres

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redfacedbaldfatman
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Joined: 25 Aug 2012, 2:15pm

Re: winter compound tyres

Postby redfacedbaldfatman » 6 Nov 2014, 8:10pm

Bicycler wrote:
redfacedbaldfatman wrote:
Bicycler wrote:Personally I don't go for the Conti Winters and keep the same tyres on the bikes the full year around. I do keep a set of Schwalbe Snow Studs to be used if necessary.


I'm not sure that's a good idea, the compound is very soft and I can imagine (like winter car tyres) would wear significantly more in warmer weather.

You misunderstand. I keep my non-winter tyres on all year round but have a set of treaded spiked tyres I can fit if I want to venture out in properly wintery conditions. I suspect that you may be right about winter tyres in the summer. The Contis are also pricey at around £40 a tyre (and they never seem to be on offer) so if I were to use them I would leave it until I was sure winter proper had started and remove them ASAP in the spring, or maybe even have them on a spare bike just for days when they might be useful. Then again, some people pay that kind of money for summer tyres so it probably doesn't make too much difference to them. I'm a cheapskate :mrgreen:


Sorry, I misread your post as "Personally I'd go for...". :oops:

I have a new set of winter contacts, just waiting for consistently low temps in the evenings before putting them on. I only bought them after having a slip in icy conditions last winter about 15 miles from home, on a virtual deserted cycle path. It made me think what would happen if I broke something and wasn't found for an hour or two.

mig
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Joined: 19 Oct 2011, 9:39pm

Re: winter compound tyres

Postby mig » 6 Nov 2014, 8:46pm

i wouldn't wait. they really don't wear as quickly as it may seem in say 10C+.

robc02
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Location: Stafford

Re: winter compound tyres

Postby robc02 » 6 Nov 2014, 8:48pm

I use Schwalbe Marathon Winters in 700 x 35. I usually have an old (as in a wreck, not antique :wink: ) bike with them on from around now until February/March - it only gets used when the conditions are cold enough for ice as they're horrible (noisy, draggy) to ride on dry tarmac. The wreck has been commandeered by a family member so this year I'll have to find a different solution.

Schwalbe also do a Winter that's available in 700 x 35 and 700 x 30 and has fewer spikes than mine. I wonder how much better it rides and how much ice grip it loses?

Bicycler
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Re: winter compound tyres

Postby Bicycler » 6 Nov 2014, 8:48pm

It did occur to me that being a cheapskate and waiting till the last minute would be a false economy if it results in getting caught out and a nasty fall

robc02
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Location: Stafford

Re: winter compound tyres

Postby robc02 » 6 Nov 2014, 8:58pm

Bicycler wrote:It did occur to me that being a cheapskate and waiting till the last minute would be a false economy if it results in getting caught out and a nasty fall


Also, if you wait until really cold weather actually arrives you might find you're at the back of a long queue! That's what happened to me when I tried it in the very cold winter a couple of years ago. Eventually I had a stroke of luck and found a new delivery at a German online retailer (might have been Actionsports.de) - when I checked a few days later they had sold out again.

Bicycler
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Re: winter compound tyres

Postby Bicycler » 6 Nov 2014, 9:01pm

robc02 wrote:Schwalbe also do a Winter that's available in 700 x 35 and 700 x 30 and has fewer spikes than mine. I wonder how much better it rides and how much ice grip it loses?

Probably not much different in many respects but it would require more care. It has all the central spikes of your tyres and none of the side ones. Most of the time you would be riding on the central bit and as long as you were careful on ice it should be fine. trouble might result if you leant into a corner on ice.

Interestingly my Snow Studs are now discontinued but still widely available online. They had the reverse arrangement. No central studs, but a decent number off to the side. This meant that you could ride them at high pressure in normal non-icy conditions without the drag and wear of the studs but if you lowered the pressure you could use them on icy roads. At middling pressures the studs would bite as you leaned or skidded. They also had a more severe tread for snowy conditions. They weren't as good as Marathon Winters on pure ice, nor a road tyre for dry roads, nor a knobbly tyre for snow but they were an interesting attempt at a jack of all trades.

Also, if you wait until really cold weather actually arrives you might find you're at the back of a long queue! That's what happened to me when I tried it in the very cold winter a couple of years ago. Eventually I had a stroke of luck and found a new delivery at a German online retailer (might have been Actionsports.de) - when I checked a few days later they had sold out again.

Yes, always buy them before you need them. The manufacturers do seem to be getting better at producing enough winter tyres to last the winter. That winter was almost comical the way that everywhere ran out so early.

wirral_cyclist
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Location: Wirral Merseyside

Re: winter compound tyres

Postby wirral_cyclist » 6 Nov 2014, 9:14pm

I run my car on winter tyres as I go out to the Alps every ski season, this is actually next week, and this year I've changed to new tyres (today) and although the old tyres had 4mm left they had hardened/aged/whatever and did slip in 1st/2nd, whereas the new ones are rock solid even with mould release compound on! So in essence put the tyres on as soon as possible and use them as much as you can! Car winter tyres are designed for 7C or below, but they are fine up to around 10/12 so if bike tyres are similar they should not be counter productive until April?

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andrew_s
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Re: winter compound tyres

Postby andrew_s » 6 Nov 2014, 9:24pm

I used Top Contact Winter II last winter, and Marathon Winter the two years before that.
I found the Top Contact to be a noticeably faster and more comfortable ride than the Marathon, and quite good on ice. Though I had to take it more carefully than with the Marathon, I could still manage to ride straight up hills up to about 10%. Speed-wise, I find them to be just as fast as the Marathon Racer that I've been using on that bike in the summer. By comparison the Marathons are very draggy and noisy.
I intend to stick with the Top Contact this winter, unless it gets to an icy everywhere condition, in which case I'll revert to the Marathon. That's based on the expectation that it will be faster to take occasional icy patches more carefully than to use the slower Marathon for the whole ride.

The Top Contact may be a nominal 37 mm, but it's considerably narrower than that. According to my memory, they are more like 32mm. They aren't on the bike at present, so I can't easily check.

tim-b
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Re: winter compound tyres

Postby tim-b » 7 Nov 2014, 8:18am

Hi

My choice of commuter tyre is the Continental GP 4-Season http://www.conti-tyres.co.uk/conticycle/ti%20grand%20prix%204%20season.shtml

Conti say
Black "Max Grip Silica" compound optimised for wet weather adhesion, low temperatures and extended tread life


Their Top Contact Winter II webpage (http://www.conti-tyres.co.uk/conticycle/ti%20topcontactwinter.shtml) doesn't specify the tread compound, but it's designed for cold temperatures and has a tread for "snowy terrain"

Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

Winkeladvokat
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Re: winter compound tyres

Postby Winkeladvokat » 10 Nov 2014, 2:20pm

Be aware, the comparison with car tyres isn't really valid, because car tyres generate a fair bit of heat when driven hard, whereas that's not really the case with cycle tyres. So the operating temperature range of the rubber in car tyres is actually quite broad in comparison and it's related, but not the same as, the static temperature of the air in that the temperature difference between the rubber and the air drives heat transfer. With cycle tyres, the tyre temperature is much closer to the static temperature.

In other words, 7 degrees for winter tyres doesn't mean that the rubber itself suffers performance degredation when the rubber hits 7 degrees - rather, it means the rubber temperature range for conditions where the static temperature is 7 degrees (with associated consequences on the heat transfer from the tyre) is such that a different compound might be optimal. (I put winter tyres on my car in winter btw!)

Personally I can't imagine there's enough of an effect to worry about specific cold weather cycle tyre compounds, over and above better wet grip tyres. If it's cold enough to worry about, you'll likely need/want studs! Of course, if someone wants to contact Conti and ask their opinion, I'd be interested in hearing otherwise!

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: winter compound tyres

Postby [XAP]Bob » 11 Nov 2014, 7:39am

mig wrote:re. winter weather. has anyone yet heard any long term forecasts for december - february?

Yes - between December and February the weather will be like january.

Forecasts that long are sets of probabilities, or magazine headlines...

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/publicsecto ... y-planners
Met Office wrote:3 month outlook:
This product provides some limited guidance on potential variance from climatology i.e. possible change from what is typical for UK weather.


The summary of the latest 3 month reports (there should be another set out in a couple of weeks):
Temp wrote:For November-December-January above-average UK-mean temperatures are more likely than below-average

Rainfall wrote:Latest predictions for UK-mean precipitation favour near- or above-average rainfall for November-December-January.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

mig
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Re: winter compound tyres

Postby mig » 11 Nov 2014, 10:13am

^^ i was looking for something pertaining to the 23rd december at about 1.30pm bob if you could :wink:

TonyR
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Re: winter compound tyres

Postby TonyR » 11 Nov 2014, 12:33pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Forecasts that long are sets of probabilities, or magazine headlines...


Or hedges. Like the daily forecast I saw the other week which predicted it would be "unseasonably warm with a chance of snow"

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: winter compound tyres

Postby [XAP]Bob » 11 Nov 2014, 5:17pm

TonyR wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:Forecasts that long are sets of probabilities, or magazine headlines...


Or hedges. Like the daily forecast I saw the other week which predicted it would be "unseasonably warm with a chance of snow"

perfectly reasonable - especially in Finland... ;)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.