Recommend Me a Torque Wrench Please

[mikeymo]

I've got two Teng torque wrenches:

3892AG-E1 which does 'low' range - 5nm-25nm

and

3892AG-E3 which does 15nm-80nm.

They both came calibrated, by Teng.

If you want a torque wrench you want a torque wrench. The advice to 'do it by feel' is all very well if you know what XXnm 'feels' like. I would ignore that advice until you DO know what xxnm feels like. Then you can do it by 'feel'.

As has been said though, maybe take a little care with 'click' type torque wrenches. After use reset to their MINIMUM setting (which Teng mistakenly calls 'zero'), but not below. And if only used occasionally they may go out of calibration. Though there a plenty of places who will do that for you for probably not much money.

Some people think that a beam type torque is better for occasional use.

[mikeymo]

...Some tips if you own a clicker type torque wrench;

...
2) when you are done using it, back the setting off to zero before packing the wrench away in storage.
...

cheers

(I know this might just be semantics, but for the benefit of the OP, who seems to be contemplating her/his first torque wrench)

Should that be back off to MINIMUM? Which isn't "0". My two clicker type torque wrenches are Teng. On their WEBSITE they say reset to Zero, but the instruction with the wrenches say to minimum.

Another manufacturer of torque wrenches makes a point of this:

https://www.norbar.com/en-gb/News-Events/Blog/entryid/449/the-ten-things-you-should-know-about-your-torque-wrench

[Airsporter1st]

...Some tips if you own a clicker type torque wrench;

...
2) when you are done using it, back the setting off to zero before packing the wrench away in storage.
...

cheers

(I know this might just be semantics, but for the benefit of the OP, who seems to be contemplating her/his first torque wrench)

Should that be back off to MINIMUM? Which isn't "0". My two clicker type torque wrenches are Teng. On their WEBSITE they say reset to Zero, but the instruction with the wrenches say to minimum.

Another manufacturer of torque wrenches makes a point of this:

https://www.norbar.com/en-gb/News-Events/Blog/entryid/449/the-ten-things-you-should-know-about-your-torque-wrench

Norbar don't say to minimum, but to minimum on the scale i.e. slightly above zero. The whole point is to release the tension (or compression) on the spring/innards, but not to go so far that things become loose inside, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread.

[mikeymo]

...Some tips if you own a clicker type torque wrench;

...
2) when you are done using it, back the setting off to zero before packing the wrench away in storage.
...

cheers

(I know this might just be semantics, but for the benefit of the OP, who seems to be contemplating her/his first torque wrench)

Should that be back off to MINIMUM? Which isn't "0". My two clicker type torque wrenches are Teng. On their WEBSITE they say reset to Zero, but the instruction with the wrenches say to minimum.

Another manufacturer of torque wrenches makes a point of this:

https://www.norbar.com/en-gb/News-Events/Blog/entryid/449/the-ten-things-you-should-know-about-your-torque-wrench

Norbar don't say to minimum, but to minimum on the scale i.e. slightly above zero. The whole point is to release the tension (or compression) on the spring/innards, but not to go so far that things become loose inside, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread.

Yes. Thank you for finding the precise wording on the Norbar site. However, what they DON'T say is 'slightly above zero'.

I think we all know what is meant. But just for precise accuracy, by my use of the word 'minimum' I meant "The minimum ON THE SCALE."

Because "the minimum ON THE SCALE" is very definitely NOT "slightly above zero", as you put it. As we're using Norbar as the arbiter of linguistic precision here, let's take one of their torque wrenches at random:

https://www.norbar.com/en-gb/products/view/product/categoryname/new-professional-wrenches/rangename/professional-adjustable-mushroom-head-industrial-ratchet/pname/model-300-1-2-n-m-lbf-ft-industrial-mushroom-ratchet/category_multid/404/range_multid/1378/id/20298

That has a range of 60Nm-300Nm. I'd be surprised if anybody who had just tightened something up to a torque of 60Nm would describe that as being 'slightly above zero'.

[mikeymo]

(I know this might just be semantics, but for the benefit of the OP, who seems to be contemplating her/his first torque wrench)

Should that be back off to MINIMUM? Which isn't "0". My two clicker type torque wrenches are Teng. On their WEBSITE they say reset to Zero, but the instruction with the wrenches say to minimum.

Another manufacturer of torque wrenches makes a point of this:

https://www.norbar.com/en-gb/News-Events/Blog/entryid/449/the-ten-things-you-should-know-about-your-torque-wrench

Norbar don't say to minimum, but to minimum on the scale i.e. slightly above zero. The whole point is to release the tension (or compression) on the spring/innards, but not to go so far that things become loose inside, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread.

Yes. Thank you for finding the precise wording on the Norbar site. However, what they DON'T say is 'slightly above zero'.

I think we all know what is meant. But just for precise accuracy, by my use of the word 'minimum' I meant "The minimum ON THE SCALE."

Because "the minimum ON THE SCALE" is very definitely NOT "slightly above zero", as you put it. As we're using Norbar as the arbiter of linguistic precision here, let's take one of their torque wrenches at random:

https://www.norbar.com/en-gb/products/view/product/categoryname/new-professional-wrenches/rangename/professional-adjustable-mushroom-head-industrial-ratchet/pname/model-300-1-2-n-m-lbf-ft-industrial-mushroom-ratchet/category_multid/404/range_multid/1378/id/20298

That has a range of 60Nm-300Nm. I'd be surprised if anybody who had just tightened something up to a torque of 60Nm would describe that as being 'slightly above zero'.

Or even, lest I be accused of picking a ridiculous example, because a 60Nm-300Nm torque wrench isn't much use in bike maintenance, take the 15Nm-80Nm wrench I do use for all sorts of things on my bikes. 15Nm isn't "slightly above zero". It's actually three times the usual torque setting for many of the common low-torque components on a bike, like stems, handlebar clamps, rotors etc.

It's also worth pointing out that talking about 'zero' on a torque wrench might encourage a neophyte to actually attempt to find 'zero'. On my clicker type torque wrench they wouldn't realise that there isn't a 'zero' until they had unscrewed the handle below the minimum marking. Something they aren't supposed to do.

[Airsporter1st]

(I know this might just be semantics, but for the benefit of the OP, who seems to be contemplating her/his first torque wrench)

Should that be back off to MINIMUM? Which isn't "0". My two clicker type torque wrenches are Teng. On their WEBSITE they say reset to Zero, but the instruction with the wrenches say to minimum.

Another manufacturer of torque wrenches makes a point of this:

https://www.norbar.com/en-gb/News-Events/Blog/entryid/449/the-ten-things-you-should-know-about-your-torque-wrench

Norbar don't say to minimum, but to minimum on the scale i.e. slightly above zero. The whole point is to release the tension (or compression) on the spring/innards, but not to go so far that things become loose inside, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread.

Yes. Thank you for finding the precise wording on the Norbar site. However, what they DON'T say is 'slightly above zero'.

I think we all know what is meant. But just for precise accuracy, by my use of the word 'minimum' I meant "The minimum ON THE SCALE."

Because "the minimum ON THE SCALE" is very definitely NOT "slightly above zero", as you put it. As we're using Norbar as the arbiter of linguistic precision here, let's take one of their torque wrenches at random:

https://www.norbar.com/en-gb/products/view/product/categoryname/new-professional-wrenches/rangename/professional-adjustable-mushroom-head-industrial-ratchet/pname/model-300-1-2-n-m-lbf-ft-industrial-mushroom-ratchet/category_multid/404/range_multid/1378/id/20298

That has a range of 60Nm-300Nm. I'd be surprised if anybody who had just tightened something up to a torque of 60Nm would describe that as being 'slightly above zero'.

Understood - but I agree that most people would understand what is meant. 'zero' on a scale is not necessarily '0' of course.

[mikeymo]

Norbar don't say to minimum, but to minimum on the scale i.e. slightly above zero. The whole point is to release the tension (or compression) on the spring/innards, but not to go so far that things become loose inside, as has been mentioned earlier in the thread.

Yes. Thank you for finding the precise wording on the Norbar site. However, what they DON'T say is 'slightly above zero'.

I think we all know what is meant. But just for precise accuracy, by my use of the word 'minimum' I meant "The minimum ON THE SCALE."

Because "the minimum ON THE SCALE" is very definitely NOT "slightly above zero", as you put it. As we're using Norbar as the arbiter of linguistic precision here, let's take one of their torque wrenches at random:

https://www.norbar.com/en-gb/products/view/product/categoryname/new-professional-wrenches/rangename/professional-adjustable-mushroom-head-industrial-ratchet/pname/model-300-1-2-n-m-lbf-ft-industrial-mushroom-ratchet/category_multid/404/range_multid/1378/id/20298

That has a range of 60Nm-300Nm. I'd be surprised if anybody who had just tightened something up to a torque of 60Nm would describe that as being 'slightly above zero'.

Understood - but I agree that most people would understand what is meant. 'zero' on a scale is not necessarily '0' of course.

No, you are mistaken. Both in usage and in actual semantics. The word 'zero' is a synonym of 0. That is exactly and precisely what it means. If you think it doesn't then you are using the word incorrectly. And in usage I am positing that the VAST majority of people use the word 'zero' when they mean the number 0. If my chain is on the 11 tooth sprocket at the back it's not on the 'zero' sprocket just because that's the smallest one I've got.

If somebody has just used a torque wrench set to a value of 20Nm, then they remember that they heard somewhere that they should reset the wrench to 'zero' it is entirely plausible that they turn the handle anti clockwise PAST the minimum setting, as they attempt to find the 'zero' or '0' mark.

Of course, without vast experience using torque wrenches, or an intimacy with the internal workings of a torque wrench, that might be a stupid thing to do. So thanks. Because having now read this thread and the details of manufacturers instructions, I realise I have done exactly that. Tried to find 'slightly above zero'. And now see I will have to get my torque wrenches re-calibrated. Stupid me.

[Brucey]

I feel a bit guilty because I may have first mentioned 'zero'. In fact many wrenches say to turn the adjustment down to the minimum rated value in the instructions, eg here;

https://www.tekton.com/manuals/manual_24340.pdf

where 25ftlbs is the minimum value.

At this point there is still a fair amount of load on the knuckle inside the wrench so parts are not going to move or come adrift. In theory, in most cases it ought to still be OK at a genuine zero, i.e. the knuckle should not be loose inside, but if you stray past zero into a negative setting then pretty much anything can happen.

The chances of something bad happening and the nature of it vary with the exact design of the wrench; the one in the manual above is a fairly common design, but there are many possible variations. IIRC in the design above the knuckle ('roller bearing' part) may rotate when there isn't enough load on it and this can throw the wrench completely out of whack. in other apparently similar designs the part that bears against the knuckle either itself turns or doesn't and this changes the chances of something bad happening unless the knuckle is actually loose inside. In others the knuckle works against a pin that can come out of position and again the wrench cannot work once this has happened.

Being able to carry out some kind of rudimentary check on the calibration of clicker wrenches is a very useful thing to be able to do.

cheers

[Vorpal]

My most reliable torque wrench is a Snap-on, so if I was in the market for a new one, that's what I would get.

[mikeymo]

I feel a bit guilty because I may have first mentioned 'zero'. In fact many wrenches say to turn the adjustment down to the minimum rated value in the instructions, eg here;

https://www.tekton.com/manuals/manual_24340.pdf

where 25ftlbs is the minimum value.

At this point there is still a fair amount of load on the knuckle inside the wrench so parts are not going to move or come adrift. In theory, in most cases it ought to still be OK at a genuine zero, i.e. the knuckle should not be loose inside, but if you stray past zero into a negative setting then pretty much anything can happen.

The chances of something bad happening and the nature of it vary with the exact design of the wrench; the one in the manual above is a fairly common design, but there are many possible variations. IIRC in the design above the knuckle ('roller bearing' part) may rotate when there isn't enough load on it and this can throw the wrench completely out of whack. in other apparently similar designs the part that bears against the knuckle either itself turns or doesn't and this changes the chances of something bad happening unless the knuckle is actually loose inside. In others the knuckle works against a pin that can come out of position and again the wrench cannot work once this has happened.

Being able to carry out some kind of rudimentary check on the calibration of clicker wrenches is a very useful thing to be able to do.

cheers

My point exactly. My torque wrenches don't have a marking of 'zero' or 0 of any sort at all. The markings stop at their lowest rated value for each wrench. So if I continue to turn down attempting to find 'zero' I won't, so perhaps I'll just guess and probably guess wrong. With whatever consequences. This is what I've done with mine, IIRC. Teng, in one of their web pages, also say 'zero'. The printed instructions say minimum. I'll alert them to the ambiguity. This is partly my fault for not reading the instructions with enough care. But at least this discussion has clarified the issue for me.

Casual or colloquial use of language which has actual technical meaning is frequently understood to be colloquial. And may well be acceptable, depending on context. So two friends discussing a recent illness and describing it as "chronic" or "acute" might very well just mean "really bad". If one of them is a medical practitioner you would expect her to perhaps clarify the meaning. And if they are BOTH medical practitioners, and at work, you would hope that they would use those terms with their exact medical meaning. I suppose "plethora" might be a better example.

In the context of this discussion, it is quite possible that two experienced mechanics working together might say, when one borrows the other's torque wrench - "remember to zero it when you've finished Pete". It may be incorrect (depending on manufacturer's instructions), but hopefully they would understand each other. Although the arrogance of surety that experience and qualifications bring is as equally distributed amongst the manual trades as it is amongst the professions, in my experience. Fortunately we musicians have the binary reminder of our imperfection, the wrong note, which quickly corrects any mistaken self-image of perfection we have adopted.

But when one is giving advice to someone who it is assumed has less knowledge or experience of a subject than oneself, then the wise course is to adopt their perspective. I know that "the bottom string" of the guitar means the lowest sounding. So do my fellow guitarists and most players of other instruments would understand. But several times each day I have to remind my students that the "bottom string" is actually the one furthest away from the ground. So I try to use language precisely, and clarify if necessary.

OP, if you buy a torque wrench, get a good one and read the manufacturer's instructions for its care.

[fastpedaller]

All this talk of zero reminds me of a 'phone conversation with a Spaniard many years ago - he was confirming a 'phone number and I gave him the number complete with each 0 called a 'zero'. He then said, but why do some English people call it nought, or O (Oh) which I think is a letter. He was absolutely correct of course

[mikeymo]

All this talk of zero reminds me of a 'phone conversation with a Spaniard many years ago - he was confirming a 'phone number and I gave him the number complete with each 0 called a 'zero'. He then said, but why do some English people call it nought, or O (Oh) which I think is a letter. He was absolutely correct of course

Yes. I was well into adulthood when my mother made exactly the same point, which I hadn't noticed. I try to use 'zero' when spelling out phone numbers, but don't always. Important numbers like credit card numbers on the phone I always say 'zero'.

[Brucey]

My most reliable torque wrench is a Snap-on, so if I was in the market for a new one, that's what I would get.

I have a 1/4" drive snap-on clicker and it is a thing of beauty, a joy to use etc. But then it ruddy well should, the amount it cost.....

cheers

[Vorpal]

My most reliable torque wrench is a Snap-on, so if I was in the market for a new one, that's what I would get.

I have a 1/4" drive snap-on clicker and it is a thing of beauty, a joy to use etc. But then it ruddy well should, the amount it cost.....

cheers

Ye
They certainly aren't cheap. When I worked as a machinist, we had to have our own tools, but we could buy them through the company. They were substantially cheaper as part of a large industrial order.

[Airsporter1st]

Yes. Thank you for finding the precise wording on the Norbar site. However, what they DON'T say is 'slightly above zero'.

I think we all know what is meant. But just for precise accuracy, by my use of the word 'minimum' I meant "The minimum ON THE SCALE."

Because "the minimum ON THE SCALE" is very definitely NOT "slightly above zero", as you put it. As we're using Norbar as the arbiter of linguistic precision here, let's take one of their torque wrenches at random:

https://www.norbar.com/en-gb/products/view/product/categoryname/new-professional-wrenches/rangename/professional-adjustable-mushroom-head-industrial-ratchet/pname/model-300-1-2-n-m-lbf-ft-industrial-mushroom-ratchet/category_multid/404/range_multid/1378/id/20298

That has a range of 60Nm-300Nm. I'd be surprised if anybody who had just tightened something up to a torque of 60Nm would describe that as being 'slightly above zero'.

Understood - but I agree that most people would understand what is meant. 'zero' on a scale is not necessarily '0' of course.

No, you are mistaken. Both in usage and in actual semantics. The word 'zero' is a synonym of 0. That is exactly and precisely what it means. If you think it doesn't then you are using the word incorrectly. And in usage I am positing that the VAST majority of people use the word 'zero' when they mean the number 0. If my chain is on the 11 tooth sprocket at the back it's not on the 'zero' sprocket just because that's the smallest one I've got.

If somebody has just used a torque wrench set to a value of 20Nm, then they remember that they heard somewhere that they should reset the wrench to 'zero' it is entirely plausible that they turn the handle anti clockwise PAST the minimum setting, as they attempt to find the 'zero' or '0' mark.

Of course, without vast experience using torque wrenches, or an intimacy with the internal workings of a torque wrench, that might be a stupid thing to do. So thanks. Because having now read this thread and the details of manufacturers instructions, I realise I have done exactly that. Tried to find 'slightly above zero'. And now see I will have to get my torque wrenches re-calibrated. Stupid me.

.....righhhhhhhhht..................

so back to torque wrenches; you wind them down to just above the minimum on the scale for storage.