Cycling UK Forum

Hi All

I am looking to buy or build a new tourer over the winter, probably based around a Spa Ti Tourer frame and forks. My existing Dawes Sardar is OK but stronger and therefore heavier than I need - I want something a bit easier to go uphill on! I have seen (on here and elsewhere) good opinions of the CSS rims produced by Ryde (formerly Rigida) at least for rear wheel use. If I want CSS I have a choice between Grizzly and Sputnik. Both take 28-62mm tyres but the Grizzly is 610g vs 745g for the Sputnik (700c).

I do 1-2 week tours, carrying rear panniers and bar bag - max weight carried (including me) would be around 100Kg. Mostly on road but occasional tow paths and similar.

So, the question is, would the Grizzly be strong enough or should I use the Sputnik and accept the extra weight? It may not be much compared to 100Kg but every little helps.

Rigida always listed the CSS sputnik rims but nobody ever seemed to have them for sale despite plenty of the CSS grizzlies knocking about. Do the sputniks actually exist?

whats so great about the CSS rims - other than 60+ euros compared to much much less for non CSS?

http://www.vakantiefietsshop.nl/velgen/1162-rigida-sputnik-css-velg.html

http://www.meilenweit.net/shop/product_info.php?products_id=99718

Bicycler wrote:... Do the sputniks actually exist?

According to Ryde http://www.ryde.nl/en/products?product=24 they do

listed here;

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.vakantiefietsshop.nl/velgen/1162-rigida-sputnik-css-velg.html&prev=search

cheers

nosmarbaj wrote:

Bicycler wrote:... Do the sputniks actually exist?

According to Ryde http://www.ryde.nl/en/products?product=24 they do

I'm aware of that. I wondered whether anybody had ever seen one in the flesh.

Brucey wrote:listed here http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.vakantiefietsshop.nl/velgen/1162-rigida-sputnik-css-velg.html&prev=search

Cheers for that, I wonder if they are not imported into the UK?

I've had standard sputniks and grizzlies before but not the css. For mainly road use where you want a lighter bike and are using css rims (so brake surface thickness is not a big issue) I'd go for grizzlies. Grizzlies are MTB rims so more than up to the job of carrying a bike and rider down a few towpaths

mercalia wrote:whats so great about the CSS rims - other than 60+ euros compared to much much less for non CSS?

Much longer rim and brake pad life, so cheaper in the long run. Also less black crud (aluminum dust) on wheels, brakes etc, and less faff 'cos less rim replacement. Downside is possibly less good braking in the wet (hence I may use on rear only).

BTW I said in my OP I had seen discussion here about CSS - actually I think I was wrong and it was elsewhere (google if you are interested)

nosmarbaj wrote:

mercalia wrote:whats so great about the CSS rims - other than 60+ euros compared to much much less for non CSS?

Much longer rim and brake pad life, so cheaper in the long run. Also less black crud (aluminum dust) on wheels, brakes etc, and less faff 'cos less rim replacement. Downside is possibly less good braking in the wet (hence I may use on rear only).

BTW I said in my OP I had seen discussion here about CSS - actually I think I was wrong and it was elsewhere (google if you are interested)

Longevity is the main thing. Mine (grizzly) have currently done around 16,000 miles. The swissstop blue blocks lasted 11,000 miles. I've not had a problem with braking in wet conditions but others have.

I have CSS Grizzlies on a couple of bikes used for roughstuff.
I found wet weather braking using KoolStop carbide pads wasn't as good as I like it, so I went back to KoolStop salmon, after the rims smoothed out a bit. Wet braking is now good, and pad wear is acceptable. ...and, as mentioned, no black slime!

The only thing I would say about the Grizzlies is there is a bit of a bulge in the rim next to the spoke nipple. This won't necessarily lead to fatigue and cracking, but I have never noticed it on a (double eyelet) Sputnik. I can't remember if my Grizzlies are single eyelet.
The Grizzlies are a lovely rim, straight and true, they almost build themselves if you shake them up in a box with the spokes.

Would I do it again? Probably not. I would probably just go for Sputniks, and keep a spare pair of wheels ....one pair of wheels for holidays, you can rag out the old ones on local day trips where you can keep a good eye on rim wear. The economics could change if you have to pay somebody else to build your wheels, I suppose.

I have Grizzlies on my tourer (26" 559 wheels, 32h non-CSS) and they've been fine for fully laden touring both on and off tarmac. I'm around 85kg, the bike is probably 15kg, luggage and contents around 25kg inc food and end of day water. I wore through the braking surfaces on one rim but that's not a strength issue. YMMV of course, but I would have thought Grizzlies would be strong enough.

Thanks everyone for such useful information. Looks like it will be Grizzlys then..

I've had two CSS Grizzly rims crack round the spoke holes, built by respected wheelbuilders, though this is on a Rohloff hub which may make a difference. I wouldn't buy another single eyelet rim. I like the CSS finish, haven't had any wet weather braking problems with the swisstop blue pads.

If you are building a bike from bits, I would advise using disc brakes (Avid BB7). Then you will always have plenty of brakes and probably never change a rim again.

goatwarden wrote:If you are building a bike from bits, I would advise using disc brakes (Avid BB7). Then you will always have plenty of brakes and probably never change a rim again.

But rims still get bent and still crack round the eyelets etc. If fact I'd argue that many disc rims are more likely to crack than rim brake rims for the simple reason that they very often use the rim as a place to try and save weight.

The idea of CSS rims is that you have the rim maintenance 'benefits' of disc brakes but without the extra weight. Rim brakes are also somewhat easier to maintain 'in the field' than disc brakes, and you can buy workable spare parts anywhere.

The reality of CSS rims doesn't always quite match the dream but they are not a bad idea IMHO. Rim brakes are far from perfect as a species, but if you are a 'better the devil you know' kind of person, better rims are quite appealing.

If you can lay you hands on some CSS sputniks, you can have wheels that are both lighter and stronger than pretty much any disc braked wheel setup.

cheers

531colin wrote:I have CSS Grizzlies on a couple of bikes used for roughstuff.
I found wet weather braking using KoolStop carbide pads wasn't as good as I like it, so I went back to KoolStop salmon, after the rims smoothed out a bit. Wet braking is now good, and pad wear is acceptable. ...and, as mentioned, no black slime!

Interesting comment. I'd previously given up on my CSS rims ( after many 1000's km I must add ) after the braking surface totally lost it's (very) wet weather braking performance with the recommended 'blue' Swissstop pads... How old /or should I say 'used' are your CSS rims Colin? Maybe I should have tried the Salmon pads before replacing my rims with the standard alloy Grizzly?