Counterfeit Frames

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tim-b
Posts: 1395
Joined: 10 Oct 2009, 8:20am

Counterfeit Frames

Postby tim-b » 15 Nov 2014, 5:17pm

Hi
I thought that this made interesting reading from Wilier
Is there an end to the things that can and will be copied?
Regards
tim-b
~~~~¯\(ツ)/¯~~~~

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easyroller
Posts: 523
Joined: 27 Feb 2012, 8:05am
Location: Berkshire

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby easyroller » 15 Nov 2014, 5:25pm

It's pretty mind blowing to see the number of fake carbon frames available all too easily online. Just see:

http://www.aliexpress.com/category/122203/bicycle-frame.html?site=glo&shipCountry=uk&pvId=19524-8244,10-8248,14-193&isrefine=y

Pretty much any major brand's design you could think of...

Brian73
Posts: 462
Joined: 11 Aug 2010, 10:32pm

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby Brian73 » 15 Nov 2014, 5:39pm

One of the young club riders up here sold his perfectly good Ribble Pro Carbon and bought an S-Works copy, the frame cracked in under a year.

I have a Planet-X frame, it's cheap, but the shop is just a few miles away not 8000 miles away in China.

fastpedaller
Posts: 2491
Joined: 10 Jul 2014, 1:12pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby fastpedaller » 15 Nov 2014, 6:06pm

I hope you don't all think mine is one of these - after all I've given a clue..... :D :D
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Brian73
Posts: 462
Joined: 11 Aug 2010, 10:32pm

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby Brian73 » 15 Nov 2014, 7:32pm

Your's is more reliable !

mercalia
Posts: 13561
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby mercalia » 15 Nov 2014, 7:39pm

Any counterfeit Dawes Sardars or 1-Down?

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CREPELLO
Posts: 5558
Joined: 29 Nov 2008, 12:55am

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby CREPELLO » 15 Nov 2014, 10:27pm

mercalia wrote:Any counterfeit Dawes Sardars or 1-Down?
Beyond this forum, I don't think they're popular enough for the crim's to bother copying.

Shootist
Posts: 537
Joined: 20 Sep 2012, 8:50pm
Location: Derby

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby Shootist » 15 Nov 2014, 10:43pm

tim-b wrote:Is there an end to the things that can and will be copied?
Regards
tim-b


After spending 10 years with Trading Standards where I specialised in counterfeiting offences I can assure readers that just about anything that sells is counterfeited and sold here.

Examples:

Cigarette papers
Cigarettes
Bic disposable razors
Car brake pads
Aircraft spares
Condoms
Coca Cola
Vodka
Whisky
Dandruff shampoo
Viagra
Hair straighteners

Add to this list almost any damned thing you can think of. Look on eBay for any branded item you are interested in. Anything originating in China is a racing certainty to be counterfeit.
Pacifists cannot accept the statement "Those who 'abjure' violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf.", despite it being "grossly obvious."
[George Orwell]

edocaster
Posts: 409
Joined: 10 Apr 2013, 10:43pm

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby edocaster » 15 Nov 2014, 11:27pm

So... basically this is Wilier's own test on what they admit to be a cheap fake?

How many genuine and fake frames do you think they tested, before they got those figures?

And I'm slightly worried that their definition of a 'dangerous frame' seems to be within at least 75% the strength of a genuine frame.

sreten
Posts: 347
Joined: 29 Sep 2013, 10:59pm

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby sreten » 15 Nov 2014, 11:50pm

Hi,

Arranging tests that your frame just survives and therefore breaks
weaker frames doesn't tell you anything much. You don't expect
two carbon frames of the same weight but one about half the
price to be the same, and TBH the numbers don't look too bad.
Quality control is the main worry, not the raw numbers.

Whilst they are misbranded, there is no intent to deceive, your
clearly buying an inferior replica, much cheaper, from China.

Representing them as the real thing makes them counterfeit.

rgds, sreten.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28855
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Nov 2014, 10:02am

I fancy there are two sides to this, especially across retail more generally, rather than specific things like bike frames. How often are people paying a substantial premium to get a posh label, when the underlying quality doesn't justify the high price? How often are genuine designer label goods made in the Far East under similar conditions to the counterfeits? I believe that a lot more stuff is manufactured in the Far East than people sometimes appreciate and this is often under the camouflage of genuine designer labels. I also believe that this is particularly the case when things are apparently imported from somewhere like the US. One point is that a lot of manufacturing costs are cheaper in the Far East and those cheaper costs don't necessarily imply lower quality. I was reading a carefully worded internet ad recently which was saying in a roundabout way that the goods were German (or possibly Danish) but manufactured elsewhere to save costs. It seems that China isn't too concerned to recognise patents and the research and development costs they are meant to recover. The picture is far from clear.

beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby beardy » 16 Nov 2014, 10:34am

Rather like this British bike.

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRHOMIS/ho ... tral-frame

This is totally legal and not a counterfeit because they own the rights to the name Holdsworth.

It is also probably a bike well made to good standards but I assume it is only the name Holdsworth that they took, not the Holdsworth manufacturing base, experience or quality control.
We can only guess where it is made.

Now if you just look at the bike itself it looks like a nice bit of kit as I assume some of the counterfeits do!

thirdcrank
Posts: 28855
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Nov 2014, 10:57am

I'd offer the example of a replica soccer strip of a top-ranking Premier League team. The price will be megabucks and way above the intrinsic value of the togs. The justification, such as it is, for the higher price is that the success of the team has made people prepared to pay more to be associated with it. Now, a replica of the replica AKA a counterfeit may be in every way identical to the real thing, or undistinguishable without a laboratory analysis. It's not quite so easy to be adamant about who is doing the ripping off.

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fossala
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Joined: 21 May 2013, 8:29am

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby fossala » 16 Nov 2014, 11:39am

I feel frame "designers" (because they aren't manufactures anymore are they :roll:) spread FUD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_unce ... _and_doubt. If they can get you to believe that unless you are going to buy their product anything else is going to imploded when you attach pedals they don't even need to put effort into making their product better that the competition.

Bicycler
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: Counterfeit Frames

Postby Bicycler » 16 Nov 2014, 11:45am

CREPELLO wrote:
mercalia wrote:Any counterfeit Dawes Sardars or 1-Down?
Beyond this forum, I don't think they're popular enough for the crim's to bother copying.

Yeah, sadly Dawes seemed to have enough trouble shifting the real ones.