Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

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reohn2
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Re: Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

Postby reohn2 » 23 Dec 2014, 6:32pm

.....If you put 10 sprockets in the same space as you put 8, then the 10 will need greater precision to shift than the 8. Simples. :wink:


Precision.
Whatever the number of cogs on the cassette the shifter(STI(MTBorRoad),index(d/t,b/end,etc) has to put the mech inline with whatever cog corresponds to the number of clicks.
That's it's job.
How much of a gap there is between each cog doesn't matter,if the system is adjusted accurately it will change.
Friction is an infinitely variable system that needs some getting used to if you've been used to STI/indexed gears.If you've only ever used friction then it comes natural.

The beauty of STI's is,if the chain has side slop and is taking it's time to climb up onto the bigger cog it can be fed up on to it by overshifting,which can be done with D/T's and B/ends but not as well or as easy.
Also the upshift(smaller cog inner paddle)doesn't release cable until it's released,ie; you can push it and hear the 'click' but until you let go it doesn't change.
So the change can be even slicker and faster.

A couple of weeks on a tandem in hilly terrain will convert anyone to STI's IMO :wink:

EDIT
Last edited by reohn2 on 24 Dec 2014, 10:03am, edited 1 time in total.
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willcee
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Re: Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

Postby willcee » 23 Dec 2014, 7:17pm

INTERESTING DILEMMA.. did this much vaunted LBS check the cassette, i would check if any of the sprockets are loose or if fitted the alloy spacer has disintegrated, causing side movement of the whole assembly.. i have had this issue on several machines, mostly owned by unsympathetic but demanding riders who were reared in a tv remote type world and think the buttons and levers should work like they do in electronics, as Brucey says i have heard them say while riving at the sti lever '' theres one in there somewhere'' all the while oblivious to the graunching going on at the rear.. yes and the frame alignment. as someone else mentioned.. would be great to see pics of this machine close up of the rear derailleur from the back and side and front mech and bars re cable routing.. will

bryce
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Re: Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

Postby bryce » 23 Dec 2014, 8:36pm

Is the rear hub in good condtion? If it's developed some play this may interact badly with shifting.

Psamathe
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Re: Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

Postby Psamathe » 23 Dec 2014, 9:05pm

Bike is a Croix de Fer 2014, purchased new and now done 6k miles. It has only experience 2 rides in rain and is kept indoors. Only "bump" was when I came off the other week - gears bad from early days and even last week was not what I would think of as "bad".

Ian

Psamathe
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Re: Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

Postby Psamathe » 23 Dec 2014, 9:10pm

willcee wrote:INTERESTING DILEMMA.. did this much vaunted LBS check the cassette, i would check if any of the sprockets are loose or if fitted the alloy spacer has disintegrated, causing side movement of the whole assembly.

Wheel was taken off and cassette checked (I asked if it was worn as I knew both chains I alternate were getting close to the end of their lives). They certainly pulled and prodded the cogs.

(I don't mean to "overrate" this LBS but they are owner run, been in business for years and have a good reputation amongst cyclists from quite a widespread area; so I've assumed they know their stuff; they seem thorough; etc .... unlike some I've used).

Ian

Keezx
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Re: Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

Postby Keezx » 23 Dec 2014, 9:14pm

mercalia wrote:
downtube are the pits, the worst ever idea in all of human history! When I had them on my Dawes Horizon that position discouraged the use the gears as too much trouble to keep on bending. Some kind of finger flicking good controls encourge optimising things as the road changes moment by moment - great for those of us who dont have endless energy to grind through matters!


Raced 14 years with those.
Never had any problem, nor heard any problem with them, it's completely natural when riding in the drops reaching down to change gear.
Half the bandwidth of the internet is occupied by forums with indexgear releted problem.
Internet would be 50% faster without STI's.
Someone who cannot ride with downtube shifters shouldn't ride a bike at all.

Malaconotus
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Re: Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

Postby Malaconotus » 23 Dec 2014, 9:18pm

Psamathe wrote:
Malaconotus wrote:Ian can you measure the length of your mech hanger from the centre of the wheel axle to the centre of the mounting point for the rear mech? I have seen similar problems which could not be resolved by extensive parts swap bingo caused by this being too long, meaning the top jockey wheel could not sit close enough to the cassette.

30mm

Malaconotus wrote:Also, did the LBS check the frame alignment?

They checked the mech was parallel with the wheel (using a special tool that screwed into where the mech screws into). But not more than that (at least nothing I saw, maybe the looked by eye).

Ian


30mm can't cause the issue I described so rule that out. Frame alignment tool looks like this and LBS will likely have one... http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/park-tool-fa ... prod15071/. Unlikely to be the cause but there aren't many possibilities left.

beardy
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Re: Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

Postby beardy » 23 Dec 2014, 10:40pm

Keezx wrote:
mercalia wrote:
downtube are the pits, the worst ever idea in all of human history! When I had them on my Dawes Horizon that position discouraged the use the gears as too much trouble to keep on bending. Some kind of finger flicking good controls encourge optimising things as the road changes moment by moment - great for those of us who dont have endless energy to grind through matters!


Raced 14 years with those.
Never had any problem, nor heard any problem with them, it's completely natural when riding in the drops reaching down to change gear.
Half the bandwidth of the internet is occupied by forums with indexgear releted problem.
Internet would be 50% faster without STI's.
Someone who cannot ride with downtube shifters shouldn't ride a bike at all.


But once they have shown competency they will be allowed to ride other bikes will they? :roll:

RonK
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Joined: 17 Sep 2011, 1:56pm

Re: Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

Postby RonK » 23 Dec 2014, 10:52pm

Keezx wrote:
mercalia wrote:
downtube are the pits, the worst ever idea in all of human history! When I had them on my Dawes Horizon that position discouraged the use the gears as too much trouble to keep on bending. Some kind of finger flicking good controls encourge optimising things as the road changes moment by moment - great for those of us who dont have endless energy to grind through matters!


Raced 14 years with those.
Never had any problem, nor heard any problem with them, it's completely natural when riding in the drops reaching down to change gear.
Half the bandwidth of the internet is occupied by forums with indexgear releted problem.
Internet would be 50% faster without STI's.
Someone who cannot ride with downtube shifters shouldn't ride a bike at all.

Pass the popcorn. :lol:
The theory is simple: a) cycling is inherently fun, and b) the less weight you carry, the more fun it is.

Tour Journals, Articles and Blog: Whispering Wheels

beardy
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Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

Postby beardy » 23 Dec 2014, 10:59pm

They could extend the theory to the car driving test, "first start your engine using the cranking handle".

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cycleruk
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Re: Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

Postby cycleruk » 24 Dec 2014, 12:07am

Not helping gentlemen. Stick to the subject matter please.
You'll never know if you don't try it.

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CREPELLO
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Re: Upgrade STI Shifters From Tigra to 105

Postby CREPELLO » 24 Dec 2014, 12:49am

Sometimes it's worth making the break and changing the biggest thing that has caused a problem.

I had my tourer set up with a bit of an exotic Shimergo - Campag Veloce Ultrashift 10 speed shifters, Campag Comp Triple rear mech, 9 speed XT 11-32 cassette. The Comp RD only needs the cable clamp re-routing a tiny bit to get the whole thing tuned up, shift/pitch wise. But I just couldn't get reliable shifting to my satisfaction.

I enquired on here and never got to the bottom of the issue. That was when I cahnged the shifters for TIAGRA 9 speed shifters (yup :P ) and an XT rear mech. And it all worked like it should have done. As you would expect.

But being a sucker for punishment, I built my recent Spa 725 Audax with some of the old components - just to see if they were any good. These were the Veloce Ultrashifts paired up with the Comp Triple RD at the back and a Camapg triple FD up front. The sprockets were Tiagra 12-28 10 speed, chain KMC 10 speed and chainset a Stronglight Impact triple. Now I really thought the rear would give me grieve. I again had to tweak the cable clamp ever so slightly. But it worked! Perfectly. I don't know why.

But up front I just couldn't get the shifting I wanted (and it was a 10 speed mech :roll: ). I changed the mech for a Shimano R443 9 speed flat bar mech, which previously had worked sweetly from the same Veloce Ultrashifts, except with a 9 speed chain. So I deduced that the 10 speed version of the mech should be a sure bet. And guess what - it wasn't :? Well it was barely acceptable. I thing that the 19mm full cable pull for the Shimano mech reduces it's range when pulled by the Ultrashifts' 18.5mm of pull.

Anyway, I will fix this, by re-clamping the mech, which isn't always easy. The increased pull will however result in good shifting - I am sure of that.