Quality flat pedals? - non-SPD

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Brucey
Posts: 35195
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Quality pedals?

Postby Brucey » 21 Jan 2015, 8:47pm

~£2 is actually pretty cheap for a dustcap and some outlets do them post free.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/mks-dust-cap-for-mtesylvan-pedals/

£1.79 post free..? [Tip; yes, you do have to push them in all the way!]

Sylvan pedals respond well to TLC but unless they are really tight from new, I'd suggest that you run them for a few hundred miles before administering the lurve...

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mercalia
Posts: 11100
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Quality pedals?

Postby mercalia » 21 Jan 2015, 10:13pm

Brucey wrote:~£2 is actually pretty cheap for a dustcap and some outlets do them post free.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/mks-dust-cap-for-mtesylvan-pedals/

£1.79 post free..? [Tip; yes, you do have to push them in all the way!]

cheers



nope £1.99 postage from wiggle? Have to spend £10 I think for free postage. As some one used to 99p stores £2 for a tiny bit of plastic is outrageous. It should be £2 for 5 or so

Brucey
Posts: 35195
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Quality pedals?

Postby Brucey » 21 Jan 2015, 10:21pm

yeah, new pedals are so much cheaper... :lol:

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mercalia
Posts: 11100
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Quality pedals?

Postby mercalia » 21 Jan 2015, 10:25pm

Any one got a 3D-Printer can make a few?

landsurfer
Posts: 4840
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: Quality pedals?

Postby landsurfer » 21 Jan 2015, 10:58pm

MKS sylvan touring pedals.
Raced on them, and their equivalent years ago.
Now off on Sportive's with them ... or is that Reliability Runs ... ???
Or Audax Events ....Whatever ... cycling ...... LOL
Just received 2 new frames , Carlton Pro Am's. One will be a road bike the other my second hybrid.
Not that I need another one but why not !
now in my mid 50's , tried all the alloy and carbon, super gear changing stuff, but back to steel frames and retro systems.
Pedals .... MKS sylvan touring pedals .. because I cannot afford the original patterns ... from our friends at Campag.
But very happy with my MKS bit and pieces.
It's not about the bike .. It's about the journey .....
The Road Goes On Forever ........................

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RickH
Posts: 4458
Joined: 5 Mar 2012, 6:39pm
Location: Horwich, Lancs.

Re: Quality pedals?

Postby RickH » 21 Jan 2015, 11:22pm

Jan Heine, of Bicycle Quarterly fame, wrote a recent "Off The Beaten Path" blog about his recent visit to the MKS factory in Japan for anyone interested in such matters.

Rick.

Brucey
Posts: 35195
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Quality pedals?

Postby Brucey » 22 Jan 2015, 12:27am

Jan Heine's piece on MKS is interesting. I've owned and used the poshest type of MKS pedal, sold as 'suntour superbe pro' back in the day. They are lovely pedals, no mistake.

But Jan Heine is being more than a bit sniffy about other 'lesser' MKS pedals; models such as the Sylvan etc are (once run in and adjusted etc) exceptionally smooth in their own right. If you want this 'out of the box' more or less, with prettier dustcaps etc then you can buy the 'Sylvan Prime' variants instead.

MKS also made the well-regarded Specialized touring pedals, back in the day; these had basically the same bearings as the MKS Sylvan model, but with a ground and polished finish, and full-contact seals.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mercalia
Posts: 11100
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Quality pedals?

Postby mercalia » 22 Jan 2015, 12:23pm

May be this post thread should be saved to the "too good to be lost" as there isnt a section on conventional pedals there? Had there been would probably have saved me some money a few months a go when I got the nice looking and seemingly good System EX ones. Any one want to buy pair unused?

Bob999
Posts: 18
Joined: 22 Jan 2015, 7:59pm

Re: Quality pedals?

Postby Bob999 » 22 Jan 2015, 8:11pm

I use the MKS urban platform pedals with toe clips. I find that over time cage pedals dig into the soles of ordinary work shoes but might be me. Anyway, the reason that I'm posting is that this thread includes maintenance information and I asked MKS how to take the urban platform pedals to bits. They said:

Yes, it is possible to remove the bearings as they are fitted no so tightly.
But please notice that any pedal dissassembled by non-MKS authorized person
will lose its MKS guarantee.

To remove the bearings, you must remove spindle first.
Take off end cap with 6mm hex.wrench, then M6 nut with 9mm box wrench,
and pull the spindle to the crank side.
After removing the spindle, push the tip side bearing from the crank side of
the pedal with 8 to 9mm diameter rod.
For the crank side bearing, vice versa.

The size of tip side bearing is: outer diameter-13mm, inner diameter-6mm, thickness-5mm
The size of crank side bearings is: outer diameter-15mm, inner diameter-10mm, thickness-4mm
Each pedal contains one tip side bearing and two crank side bearings.

We hope your successful maintenance.

Best regards,
Y.Mandai MKS Pedal

Brucey
Posts: 35195
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Quality pedals?

Postby Brucey » 23 Jan 2015, 7:38am

I've not had that model apart so that is good info. They use similar bearings in some other models.

The inboard bearings (four required, with seals) would be identified as 6700-2RS, 6700-RS, 61700-2RS, 61700-RS
The outboard bearings (two required) would be 686-2RS (with seals) or 686ZZ (with shields)

You will probably find that knocking the bearings out will be slightly easier if you tip a kettle of boiling water over the pedal body first, and then work reasonably quickly (using gloves!). Same goes for installation, too.

I'd expect the inboard bearings to fail if the weather gets past the seals, but otherwise the outboard bearing is likely to fail first; the static load ratings for the bearings are 40kg for the 686 bearing and 44kg for each 6700 bearing. The outboard bearing's load rating is a bit marginal; if your foot is towards the outside of the pedal when you start off, you will likely exceed the static load rating.

In theory the inboard bearings will only share the load properly if they are a perfect matched pair. SKF and others will sometime sell bearing sets that are properly matched for such paired applications, but in practice if there is capacity to spare in the load rating (which there is in this case) then two normal bearings from the same batch will be 'good enough'.

When installing the bearings you should use a drift that bears against the outer element of each bearing; so 12.9mm and 14.9mm OD drift respectively. You may get lucky and find that you have some 1/4" drive sockets that are the correct diameters but the ends need to be perfectly square if seal damage is to be avoided.

Some MKS pedals use shims to adjust the cartridge bearing preload; the shims required may vary with the way the bearings are installed; if the bearings start to bind/drag in the slightest way once the retaining nut is tightened, you probably need to check that the bearings are fitted in the pedal body correctly, and/or to add shims. If you don't correct this condition the bearing life will be very short. If there are too many shims then the outboard bearing may see all the lateral loads; this isn't a complete disaster but it will shorten the life of the assembly. Correct shimming is tricky, hence MKS's comment about the warranty being voided in the event of DIY bearing replacement.

IME if you more or less fill the space between the inboard and outboard bearings with oil or better still a semi-fluid grease, such pedal bearings will last longer. You can remove inner seals from the bearings to allow the lube to circulate properly too. If you add more lube on an annual basis then (barring collapse of the 686 bearing through overload, or spindle fatigue) the pedals may outlive you.

Obviously if the bearings are a very easy (or even loose) fit in the pedal assembly when installed, then a little bearing retaining compound isn't a bad idea. The only place where this isn't necessary is the inner part of the outboard bearing; the locknut will hold the bearing OK.

If you experience repeated bearing failure (with no signs of weather ingress) then it may be the installation method that is at fault, or it could be the load rating (of the outboard bearing) isn't enough for your service. In the latter case you could try to source a (stronger) full-complement 686 bearing instead. They must exist, but I wouldn't know where to buy them. In the UK, BETD stock a lot of full-complement bicycle bearings, but not that size, I think. Once the 686 bearing starts to fail, it is a good idea to replace it as soon as there is any sign of free play; if you do this promptly you may avoid having to replace the inboard bearings at the same time.

BTW the MKS Urban platform pedal is pretty much styled on the old Lyotard Mod 23 'Marcel Berthet' pedal ( C. 1930). However a minor criticism of the MKS version is that (unlike the original) the lips on the inboard edge of the platform are set a long way from the crank. This increases the Q factor somewhat, even if it does better prevent crank scuffing. If this is not a problem, they are nice pedals, and like you say they don't chew up soft-soled shoes like cage pedals do.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bob999
Posts: 18
Joined: 22 Jan 2015, 7:59pm

Re: Quality pedals?

Postby Bob999 » 23 Jan 2015, 7:59pm

That's helpful information which I will use when I next service the pedals.

BTW the MKS Urban platform pedal is pretty much styled on the old Lyotard Mod 23 'Marcel Berthet' pedal ( C. 1930). However a minor criticism of the MKS version is that (unlike the original) the lips on the inboard edge of the platform are set a long way from the crank. This increases the Q factor somewhat, even if it does better prevent crank scuffing. If this is not a problem, they are nice pedals, and like you say they don't chew up soft-soled shoes like cage pedals do.


After I'd had the pedals on for about a week I did file down the two ridges on the inside of each pedal and they were then noticeably more comfortable as it was easier for my foot to overhang a little on the crank side. I wondered what the point of the lips was supposed to be so now I know - but I'm not concerned by crank scruffing.