Brakes and tyres

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bazzo
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Brakes and tyres

Postby bazzo » 17 Feb 2015, 8:31am

Two questions,

There appears to be a move away from 23mm to 25mm tyres for road bikes, rolling resistance and comfort seem to improve by using a wider tyre. Just wonder if anyone has tried this and was there a significant improvement.

I need to Change my brake pads and will probably go for swiss stop greens, if I buy just the inserts will they fit a Cannondale brake shoe, are shoes which allow insert replacement a standard size?

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jamesbradbury
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby jamesbradbury » 17 Feb 2015, 8:48am

Yes, wider tyres are more comfortable because you can get away with slightly lower pressure. Jan Heine (?) did some research and found wider tyres may have lower rolling resistance, but I doubt it is noticeable. He also has a chart to calculate the correct pressure accordingly to weight and width, although I find that less than 65 psi in my 28mm front tyre invites pinch flats.

The only disadvantages are that wider tyres may not fit and are slightly heavier.

Afaik, brake blocks are generally two basic sizes, either for v brakes or calipers. For example, I use swiss stop green in Clarks holders.
Last edited by jamesbradbury on 17 Feb 2015, 10:18pm, edited 1 time in total.

Brucey
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby Brucey » 17 Feb 2015, 8:53am

bazzo wrote: There appears to be a move away from 23mm to 25mm tyres for road bikes, rolling resistance and comfort seem to improve by using a wider tyre. Just wonder if anyone has tried this and was there a significant improvement.


By 'road bikes' you mean those bikes that look like racing bikes but are almost invariably not used for racing... so you don't really need racing tyres on them either, especially not if you are riding on typical rubbish road surfaces. In point of fact 28s etc are even more comfortable but such talk is verboten in the pages of many glossy magazines because most of the bikes they would have you buy won't even accept such tyres....

I need to Change my brake pads and will probably go for swiss stop greens, if I buy just the inserts will they fit a Cannondale brake shoe, are shoes which allow insert replacement a standard size?


Cannondale don't make brakes, they have other people make brakes for them. They might have shoes which accept either shimano or campagnolo sized 'road' inserts (which are the two styles that SSG come in IIRC)... but then again they might not. So if you find out (say) that your 'cannondale brakes' are actually TRP/tektro ones you can proceed accordingly (most Tektro use the same style of pad as Shimano and Sram). If you buy a set of cheap shimano pattern inserts (£2-£3) you can find out if your shoes are shimano compatible or not directly.

hth

cheers
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reohn2
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby reohn2 » 17 Feb 2015, 9:18am

Just to add to what Brucey says about tyres.
If you buy good quality supple tyres in a bigger size 28's if the frame will take them,you'll find comfort will improve even more.
If you also don't over inflate them as many do,that will also improve comfort for no energy/speed loss.
Check out this this chart:- http://www.bikequarterly.com/images/TireDrop.pdf bear in mind the loading is per wheel so you'd need to work out your wheel loading,which is usually around 60% rear 40% front so adjust the tyre pressure accordingly.

I find BBB Techstop pads to be very good in dual pivot calipers especially in wet and mucky conditions:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BBB-TechStop- ... 2a4992db0c
Last edited by reohn2 on 17 Feb 2015, 9:26am, edited 2 times in total.
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mig
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby mig » 17 Feb 2015, 9:24am

be wary though. i've used a few 23c tyres that are so tall they would barely fit in some frames and many 28c (and nominally bigger) tyres that come up small. volumes vary quite a bit. there's plenty of grey area in this field when considering rim widths, manufacturer's tyre advertising etc etc.

beardy
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby beardy » 17 Feb 2015, 10:02am

I wonder how many people can really tell if they are riding a 25mm or 23mm tyred bike (that is ones genuinely that size as the point in the post above is totally true about that often not being the case).

I think that I can tell 28mm from 23mm but not sure I can tell 25mm from either of the others.

pwa
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby pwa » 17 Feb 2015, 10:19am

I've used Continental Gatorskins in 23, 25 and 28mm. I can feel a difference between 23 and 28. The 23s are lighter and feel more nippy when accelerating. The 28s are a bit less chatter on coarse road chippings. I did use 28s on long audax rides for a while because I thought I might benefit from a bit more comfort, but I did feel that they slowed me down a bit. So I went to 25s and found them to be just right for me. Very nearly as fast as 23mm on very smooth tarmac, and probably a bit faster on rougher surfaces.

But we are splitting hairs here. If you fancy trying something new then do it. So long as your frame has clearance for the tyres you want to try.

For what its worth I have acquired a (very expensive) habit in the form of Continental Grand Prix 4 Seasons 25mm which I find durable, grippy, fast and able to take some of the buzz out of road chippings. And to save my bum I never inflate tyres to more than 100psi.

SteveHunter
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby SteveHunter » 17 Feb 2015, 10:26am

I have just done this :)

My road bike (specialized Allez) all last year ran on 23mm Mavic Aksion tyres, it was my first ever road bike and I knew no difference, I thought thinner meant faster and that was all that mattered.

As winter approached the thought of mudguards came to mind I realised another bike would be useful more suitable for mudguards and wider tyres, allowing me to leave the fair weather bike on the turbo trainer for the winter.

My winter bike, bought second hand from the forum is a Project X Kaffenback. This has 28mm Gatorskins on it and it was soon obvious that the ride was a huge amount better. This is probably a combination of the frame, tyres, and saddle.

I decided to try 25mm Continental GP tyres on the Allez to see if that made a difference, I think it does. I did a 70km ride on it last weekend and I'm sure it felt better than on the 23mm tyres. It could all be psychological.
Reduced tyre pressures could also be a factor, I used to think that you should inflate tyres to the max all the time, I have since learnt otherwise.

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foxyrider
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby foxyrider » 17 Feb 2015, 10:27am

beardy wrote:I wonder how many people can really tell if they are riding a 25mm or 23mm tyred bike (that is ones genuinely that size as the point in the post above is totally true about that often not being the case).

I think that I can tell 28mm from 23mm but not sure I can tell 25mm from either of the others.


Well i can for one and the move up to 28 feels like sludge riding! I prefer 23 on my best bike, that said i've still got 38c Snow Stud 'tractor tyres' on the 'winter commute'!

I think too much time is spent stressing over which is better - fine for elite racers but mere mortals should ride what suits them so don't mock my 23's or my touring bike's 25's, its what i prefer, if you want to run 45's thats your choice.
Convention? what's that then?
Airnimal Chameleon touring, Orbit Pro hack, Orbit Photon audax, Focus Mares AX tour, Peugeot Carbon sportive, Owen Blower vintage race - all running Tulio's finest!

beardy
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby beardy » 17 Feb 2015, 10:35am

so don't mock my 23's


I hope I didnt come across as doing so, I am not "sizist" I happily ride from 25mm to 2" tyres.
I would also ride 23mm tyres if I weighed 73Kg or even 83Kg instead of my 93Kg.

On the other hand I have not swallowed the "bigger is faster" mantra which is the current fashion.
I still believe that the thinnest that will reasonably support my weight will use the least energy getting me through the miles on most roads which I would be riding on with those tyres.

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mjr
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby mjr » 17 Feb 2015, 10:40am

Yes, wider tyres will make a difference, at least on our roads: 32-630 (27x1¼") and 37-590 (26x1⅜") weren't popular road tyre sizes for years by random chance! There's one theory that thinner tyres means stiffer sidewalls means more resistance... but fatter tyres means greater contact means more resistance.

Brakes: I think there might be a Shimano/Campagnolo difference, but otherwise the same size pads will fit in the same size holders, be that 35mm or 50mm (calipers) or 70mm (V).
Last edited by mjr on 17 Feb 2015, 10:41am, edited 1 time in total.
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mig
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby mig » 17 Feb 2015, 10:40am

i don't think i could tell the difference between 23c and 25c tyres if mounted on the same wheel.

i can tell the difference between 23c and 28, 35 and 37c tyres but these are widely different tyres on different rims, weighing different amounts and mounted on different bikes. the tyre isn't the only noticeable factor.

bazzo
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby bazzo » 17 Feb 2015, 10:48am

Thanks for all the advice, especially Bruceys point about tektro brakes, it is one of those none racing looking alike bikes, but I quite like it. I will try 25's I don't think there is enough clearance for 28's obviously that depends on the tyre profile.

Thomas125
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Re: Brakes and tyres

Postby Thomas125 » 17 Feb 2015, 9:44pm

My old hybrid had 38 tyres which were lovely if you got the pressure right. Slick tread so they were still pretty speedy.

I then went to a racer with 28 low profile tyres and I found them really uncomfortable, I ended up having to dodge the worst bits of the roads for fear of damaging the wheels.

I'm now on another hybrid with 32 tyres and the extra volume makes the world of difference although I still miss the 38s.

Even so I have to watch the pressure on the 32 Max them and the ride is very jarring.

I like the 15% drop idea. If I ever get round to it I might weigh the front and back of the bike to get a more accurate ratio.
Was 93.4kg now 78.3kg

Next target 74.0kg

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