Trek issues massive quick-release skewer recall

[maxcherry]

Thank you for explaining

[greyingbeard]

I think that there is a special subset of numpty that thinks that the way to tighten all QRs is the same way as one would use to tighten 'spin-stix' (remember them?). This type of numpty might otherwise be weeded out of the gene pool but TREK clearly feel the need to protect this endangered species...?

cheers

A lot of them live in USA, not so much the land pf the free (only if one complies) but the land of the no-win-no-fee lawyer and moronic juries.

[Audax67]

My earlier comments were meant in part to be a little flippant, rather than 'victim blaming'. But having said that bikes (and cycling) are inherently dangerous. Come to that, life itself is 100% dangerous.... we all die, it is just a question of how and when. Carelessness of any kind could cost you your life on a daily basis....

I find it saddening that here and elsewhere that so many people are engaging in victim blaming. It's easy whenever there is a problem to put the blame on the people affected. The fact is that it shouldn't fail in this way and kudos to Trek for sorting it out.

I don't think it will necessarily 'sort it out'; I think that some people are so wilfully daft they will find something else to leave undone.

The same kinds of people have avoidable accidents with loaded firearms, drive/ride in the dark with the lights off, disconnect their brakes, never pump their tyres up, play with live mains electricity, etc. I think such people are probably better off not riding bicycles at all... but if they do ride one they should either buy one that is simpler and doesn't have a QR at all, or be tested to make sure that they understand how to use it before they walk out of the shop...

In all fairness I do think the design of that particular QR is poor, and I had noticed that it was so; there is no reason for it to rotate more than 180 degrees. But the fact is that it still requires an act of almost wilful stupidity or some carelessness for it to actually cause an accident. It is far more likely that the 'design defect' in tyres (i.e. that they puncture when you run over something jaggy) or in the bicycle itself (i.e. that it falls over when you stop...) will cause a worse accident, surely...?

cheers

You know who's responsible for the recall, don't you? Lawyers, that's who. Not Trek's lawyers who justifiably saw a legal vulnerability, but the lawyers in the 70s & 80s who argued that there was no such thing as common sense, and that someone who walked an aluminium ladder without an appropriate warning sticker into electricity lines was innocent of his electrocution. That, plus the invention of lawyers taking a percentage of awarded damages.

(Wrote this before Greybeard's missive but can't be fagged to changed it.)

[MikeF]

....70s & 80s who argued that there was no such thing as common sense,

One person's "common sense" is another's "common non-sense". "Common sense" is just a view, which the holder believes to be correct.

[andrew_s]

That was the whole idea of 'lawyer's lips'

The QR nut will loosen enough to come over lawyers lips if you don't notice the looseness first.

So will anything if it isn't check periodically

I'm afraid that's wishful thinking.
Most people, when they tighten a bolt/nut, expect it to stay tight.
When was the last time you checked your QR, wheel removal/replacement excepted?

[tim-b]

Hi

When was the last time you checked your QR, wheel removal/replacement excepted?

I don't. Visual inspection, tyre pressures and a bounce test; if anything rattles then I investigate. Maybe I should be more rigorous?

There's a connected article here with some early stages experimentation and a few comments below the article
EDIT: And this court case from 2009

Regards
tim-b

[pete75]

If this article is anything to go by there have been problems with QR and dsick brakes for years https://web.archive.org/web/20121005235 ... k_release/

The worst QR to use with a disc is not the enclosed cam type that's being recalled but this sort - a dreadful design to my mind. People can do them up with the cam on the high part of the washer and it then rotates a bit in use so the cam falls into the trough leading to instant wheel looseness . It says a lot for the man that Tulio Campagnolo's original QR design of of over 80 years ago is yet to be bettered.

[pete75]

Do thru axles help with this?

Allen key skewers eliminate any possibility:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/36026035 ... 108&ff19=0

In fact qr skewers are only any use for their intended purpose no tool quick change wheels ie; racing,for almost any other purpose they're of little use.

If a QR isn't wanted why bother with the complication of a hollow axle and skewer at all - why not use a solid axle and track nuts.

[fatboy]

I think that Lawyer's lips are the cause of people not using the QR right (and pretty much every bike that I've worked on from non experienced cyclists has had the can not closed) because the QR thing just doesn't work as you have to tighten AND close the can. It annoys the heck out of me!

[reohn2]

I'm afraid that's wishful thinking.
Most people, when they tighten a bolt/nut, expect it to stay tight.

If anyone thinks that once a bolt on a bike is tightened it never needs checking,they live under an illusion and need a course in simple mechanics.
Bolts nuts and especially qr skewers(more so front ones) do need to be checked regularly.
It's the easiest thing in the world for a qr to flick open if bikes are stacked outside cafes or in racks with other bikes in town.I've seen a qr be flicked open when a bike was leaned up against a wire fence when one of the wires hooked around it.
I wouldn't put it past idiotic people to fiddle with bikes when they are left unattended either.
Can I remind you of the idiots that have deliberately set 18 grass fires in Wales in the past few weeks,some as young as 9 and as old as 35 .
With those kind of lunatics roaming free amongst us I check my bike whenever it's left unattended for any length of time in a public place.

When was the last time you checked your QR, wheel removal/replacement excepted?

Thursday for the MTB as I put the wheel in after getting the bike out of the car.
When I got home after the ride I cleaned the bike and drivetrain as it was getting due.
Then in the time honoured old fashioned way,with allen keys and an 8mm spanner in hand,I went down each side of the bike checking all bolts,cables,etc.
I then lubed the chain and all pivot points.
The whole shebang took less than 1/2 an hour

On my bikes I usually I drop the wheels out approx every 200miles to check the tyres for foreign bodies,I do the same bolt check and take a look at the gear and brake cables,lube the pivots and chain.
It's just regular maintenance.

I have a theory about people who don't do regular maintenance,they don't do any so they won't have to concern themselves about it if they find something they don't know how to deal with.
It's a form of living in denial or blissful optimism.

[reohn2]

If a QR isn't wanted why bother with the complication of a hollow axle and skewer at all - why not use a solid axle and track nuts.

I agree,though there is a theory that hollow axles are actually stronger than solid ones.

We've also ridden 40miles home on a broken rear axle on the tandem with the qr holding it together,had it been a solid axle we'd have been stumped .

[reohn2]

If this article is anything to go by there have been problems with QR and dsick brakes for years https://web.archive.org/web/20121005235 ... k_release/

When we first looked at disc brakes with a view to buying a tandem with them fitted I looked at that site and after much deliberation we decided to go ahead.Our tandem has 203 rotors and BB7 calipres with socketed downward facing dropouts.
I've done some pretty rigorous braking tests,and checked the skewers regularly.I'm glad to report we've never had any issues in 6 years use.
The Salsa Vaya(s) and the Genesis Longitude I own all have forward facing socketed front d/outs no issues to report.

The worst QR to use with a disc is not the enclosed cam type that's being recalled but this sort - a dreadful design to my mind. People can do them up with the cam on the high part of the washer and it then rotates a bit in use so the cam falls into the trough leading to instant wheel looseness . It says a lot for the man that Tulio Campagnolo's original QR design of of over 80 years ago is yet to be bettered.

I agree but as I don't race or need rapid wheel changes,I use Halo Allen key skewers,no problems to report with those either and they come in a choice of pretty colours too

[Brucey]

I've used QR hubs and disc brakes for years on XC-MTBs with no troubles.

But... in all cases the hub locknuts have had fairly pronounced ridges etc and it is clear that after relatively little use, the inside face of the dropout (which has been in Alu or Mg in my bikes) has a wear mark that will greatly improve the wheel location.

It goes without saying that some hubs have rather soft, rather smooth locknuts and in a steel frame, and/or one with a thick layer of paint still present, they may not grip anything like as well.

Note that for the QR to see any significant lateral load (which might then start things unscrewing), the wheel has to be moving about in the dropouts. i.e. the locknuts are sliding against the dropout inside face. My contention is that this doesn't happen in most installations once the parts have bedded in, but might very well happen in a new installation, one with badly chosen parts, or one where the QR simply isn't tight enough for whatever reason.

So the QR itself is just one ingredient in a recipe that might eventually lead to an accident.

cheers

[geocycle]

I agree that QR skewers are not that useful for most folk not interested in quick wheel changes to win races, or to be fair someone who has to remove a front wheel for transport on a regular basis. I used pitlocks and am very happy to have them on my hubs. You do have to be careful not to over tighten them. If you are over zealous the Rohloff complains. My worst cycling mistake was over tightening after a puncture in the Cheviots and I actually managed to snap the pitlock skewer. I managed to coast 25 miles into Newcastle with the back wheel held in by the rohloff cable, vertical drop outs and a stiff frame!

[oldstrath]

What do we think of this?

http://grit.cx/video/2015/04/qr-recall- ... e-industry

Mostly that anyone who can't ensure this doesn't cause a problem on their bike probaly needs help with most activities of daily living.

I highly doubt the people who have experienced accidents, some life-threatening, can be fairly characterised this way.

The QR skewer is a solution to one problem (speed of wheel change) and a compromise for everything else. A cam lever is not infallible, and with cyclic changes in tension (perhaps caused by flex in the skewer and the hub body) they can loosen. There are enough anecdotal reports of self-loosening QR skewers to show that such a problem can occur.

And then the lawyer lips save the day, or at least lessen the worst possible accident scenarios. Whatever you think about them, short of a snapped quick release (also something which is not unknown - after all, what happens when something is overtightened and flexes?), lawyer lips aren't an awful idea. However, they don't prevent the accident this current recall concerns. I think Trek are entirely sensible to pursue this recall.

At the end of the day, if you had a car where you couldn't rely on the wheels staying in without checking frequently, you'd be quite entitled to say something was a bit off.

Well, I'd expect to check most things on a bike reasonably often - not sure why QRs should be any different. And surely adults should expect to take responsibility for their own safety?

Yes, fine, in this case it's easy to understand why Trek did a recall, yes, probably everyone else should as well, yes, we should probably only use disc brakes with through axles. But eventually someone will find another way to come of a bike and hurt themselves. And maybe there will be another fix to deal with that problem. And so it goes, adding cost and complexity.