Drivetrain longevity: wax or oil?

[Chris Jeggo]

if a transmission was infinitely clean would it run indefinitely without wear?

no; bicycle transmissions are too slow moving and too highly loaded to ensure that the surfaces are separated by a lubricant film.

I believe that the John Marston 'Sunbeam' with the 'Little Oil Bath', had a transmission which outlasted the great majority of its owners. It had a 1/8" chain always running in line in a chain case which excluded dirt and was sufficiently oil-tight to maintain a pool of oil through which the chain passed continuously. They don't make 'em like that any more. (http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunbeam.htm)

[Brucey]

a fully bushed 1/8 chain, inside a chaincase (even one without an oil bath), can last 20000 miles. WIth a good oil bath, longer than that. However that still isn't 'indefinitely'!

Note also that the bushings in a bushed 1/8" chain are about 5mm wide, and they should be loaded in a nice straight line. Of any commonly used bike chains these have at least some chance of running with an intact lubricant film, some of the time (high speed low load operation).

By contrast if you look at a modern derailleur chain (and the same goes for a lot of bushingless 1/8" chains too BTW), each side plate has a tiny bushing area which is typically ~1mm wide (or less). This means that a typical derailleur chain has ~2/5ths the bushing area of a 1/8" bushed chain, and just to make things really bad, the derailleur chain flexes under load when it is at an angle. No wonder they wear out!

cheers

[TrekMad]

3 in 1 gives me 10k Plus on my single speed.

[mig]

3 in 1 gives me 10k Plus on my single speed.

with negligible chainring wear?

[TrekMad]

Steel chainring = zero wear!

[Tonyf33]

Steel chainring = zero wear!

+1
Steel cassette sprockets do very nicely too.
I'm happy with alloy/titanium sprockets on my race bike, I'm even hankering over some carbon fibre chainrings (because I can and they look the snizz ) but on a commuter/touring bike some things can be hardwearing and function just fine as well as cosmetically look ok as well.

[reohn2]

Steel chainring = zero wear!

It's not that simple.
I've worn out steel chainrings especially inner rings on tandems.

[TrekMad]

I got my steel ( Williams) chainset from an old boy who did about 8000 miles a year touring on it. I'd estimate its done c. 80,000 miles before I got it. By this year end I reckon it'll be closer to 100 k miles. I've done approx 11,600 miles on my Garmin. Apart from the odd bit of chrome loss on the single 48t chainring, it looks pretty much like new. I expect it'll outlive me!

[reohn2]

I got my steel ( Williams) chainset from an old boy who did about 8000 miles a year touring on it. I'd estimate its done c. 80,000 miles before I got it. By this year end I reckon it'll be closer to 100 k miles. I've done approx 11,600 miles on my Garmin. Apart from the odd bit of chrome loss on the single 48t chainring, it looks pretty much like new. I expect it'll outlive me!

Ah! different era,when things were made to last that long

[gxaustin]

I've been experimenting with chain lube. Firstly I tried Hypoid Gear Oil. This was quite good. Then I had the idea of mixing Hypoid with wax. For the last 1,000 miles I've used a 50/50 hypoid oil/ wax mixture, applied hot. The chain has done about 2,000 miles with little wear. I expect to get the same again.
Are there any other lube experimenters?

[barrym]

What is the recipe?

[gxaustin]

50/50 hypoid oil/ wax mixture as stated above
It is just about solid at room temp.

[barrym]

What I really meant was what are the actual ingredients, particularly the wax.

[Brucey]

I've been experimenting with chain lube. ...
Are there any other lube experimenters?

yup, I've tried all kinds of things along those lines including some more complex recipes. Some comments;

- if using a wax-oil mix, more wax makes for a stiffer consistency (and less dirt in use) but the lube is more likely to run dry and fail.

- waxes vary. If you want consistent results you need a consistent source of wax. Candlewax can work OK; if you mix it with oil you can get a kind of semi-solid mush.

- wax + oil alone is not good enough for a UK winter; it passively resists corrosion but it doesn't actively inhibit corrosion; for that you need some different chemistry, eg the stuff they add to waxoyl seems to help.

- hypoid gear oil has EP additives in it. Probably there is more to be gained by using a higher dose of such additives, but it gets complicated; they interact with one another and some of them don't work until the temperature is locally very high (i.e. only when there would be wear occurring)

- solid lubricants help. Adding powdered graphite, PTFE or MoS2 or w.h.y. can help slow the wear processes in the chain.

- you can make a mix with a volatile solvent easily enough but if you don't allow it time enough for the solvent to flash off before using the bike then it won't work. Most of my favoured mixes have been without solvent, and thus applied when hot, using a hairdryer or similar to run them into the chain.

Needless to say I have not yet created the ideal material that doesn't attract the dirt and yet is mobile enough to keep the chain happy indefinitely. But it has been fun trying....

cheers

[NUKe]

I've been experimenting with chain lube. Firstly I tried Hypoid Gear Oil. This was quite good. Then I had the idea of mixing Hypoid with wax. For the last 1,000 miles I've used a 50/50 hypoid oil/ wax mixture, applied hot. The chain has done about 2,000 miles with little wear. I expect to get the same again.
Are there any other lube experimenters?

Have done in the past. mixed various oils and waxes. In the end I've settled on chainsaw oil chain oil. I can buy it in bulk use it in a syringe to add directly to the chain. and in a deep fat fryer on low heat to clean and re lube. I cycle 4 chains and get 3500 approx. out of each chain before I consign them to the scrap metal bin. This a 10 speed system.