The Disc Brake Naughty Corner Thread

[horizon]

On thinking about this, I considered three scenarios:

1. A bike with cantilever brakes that saw the donkey at x yards/metres and was able to stop in time.
2. A bike with disc brakes that saw the donkey at zero yards/metres and couldn't stop in time.
3. A bike with disc brakes that saw the donkey at x - y yards/metres and was able to stop in time.

It doesn't really matter what brakes you have, you still need to know that you have to stop (i.e. warning time), you still cannot stop instantly (or you go over the bars) and you still have to allow for conditions (even with disc brakes - cars pulling out etc). So your riding will change with disc brakes but in essence nothing changes. Of course, if your cantilevers are poorly adjusted etc and really don't stop you then, yes, good discs are better.

[reohn2]

On thinking about this, I considered three scenarios:

1. A bike with cantilever brakes that saw the donkey at x yards/metres and was able to stop in time.
2. A bike with disc brakes that saw the donkey at zero yards/metres and couldn't stop in time.
3. A bike with disc brakes that saw the donkey at x - y yards/metres and was able to stop in time.

It doesn't really matter what brakes you have, you still need to know that you have to stop (i.e. warning time), you still cannot stop instantly (or you go over the bars) and you still have to allow for conditions (even with disc brakes - cars pulling out etc). So your riding will change with disc brakes but in essence nothing changes. Of course, if your cantilevers are poorly adjusted etc and really don't stop you then, yes, good discs are better.

I read the donkey and the disc brakes post that the poster could stop in time because,in adverse wet weather conditions the disc brakes were far more predictable than rim brakes in the same conditions and not that he actually stopped instantly but that his brakes worked predictably and instantly and not with the time lag of none existant braking that happens with rim brakes in similar conditions.
I concur with that viewpoint because of my experience with both discs and rim brakes,some people(well one in particular ) think that predictability is a bad thing and have said as much,not only that but claimed in other threads that people who use discs are inexperienced cyclists who can't ride properly.
I'm not going search out those threads because I simply can't be bothered,I know what I know,some people spout about things they know nothing about.

[Avspider]

It was not raining, the road was wet. I was riding well within my abilities.
The only time I have had an issue of not being able to stop fast enough was when a car deliberately pulled in and stopped infront of me. Which I then hit (just) had I been on my bike with disc brakes I have no doubt in my mind I would have stopped and not hit the car, it was wet and I was doing about 15mph.
(Car driving now been charged with multiple things and had 6 points added to their licence, all on helmet camera).

[David9694]

I’ve never had a bike with disc brakes. I think I lose tyre traction long before the undoubtedly superior disc brakes could make any difference. Sorry, donkey.

Mr 10s rim braked, that’s me, I like to swap my components around freely.

Is this thread now a record?

[RickH]

Even if the braking was no better one thing I don't miss is the grey gloop (presumably worn off rim material plus brake block suspended in water) running down the forks & seatstay when when I've been riding in the wet.

None of that horrible scraping sound either on the last steep descent at the end of the commute home as the grit on the road gets thrown up onto the rims with the water making a nice(?) grinding paste (local geology - millstone grit) once it gets between the rim & the brake blocks!

[Sweep]

Even if the braking was no better one thing I don't miss is the grey gloop (presumably worn off rim material plus brake block suspended in water) running down the forks & seatstay when when I've been riding in the wet.

None of that horrible scraping sound either on the last steep descent at the end of the commute home as the grit on the road gets thrown up onto the rims with the water making a nice(?) grinding paste (local geology - millstone grit) once it gets between the rim & the brake blocks!

Have only ever had that nasty scraping sound for very short periods with any of my rim braked bikes. If it happens I clean the rims at the first opportunity. I clean them very well but don't think I would have to spend long to clear the scraping.
I was cycling through Cheshire lanes a few days ago - a guy ahead of me had a nice bike (he was a strava fan) which I am pretty sure he took care of - his disc brakes were making a hell of a racket - my V braked bike with its £1 a set (of four) pads was blissfully silent.

[The utility cyclist]

On thinking about this, I considered three scenarios:

1. A bike with cantilever brakes that saw the donkey at x yards/metres and was able to stop in time.
2. A bike with disc brakes that saw the donkey at zero yards/metres and couldn't stop in time.
3. A bike with disc brakes that saw the donkey at x - y yards/metres and was able to stop in time.

It doesn't really matter what brakes you have, you still need to know that you have to stop (i.e. warning time), you still cannot stop instantly (or you go over the bars) and you still have to allow for conditions (even with disc brakes - cars pulling out etc). So your riding will change with disc brakes but in essence nothing changes. Of course, if your cantilevers are poorly adjusted etc and really don't stop you then, yes, good discs are better.

wrong, thinking time reduces when you believe you can brake later and from a higher speed, classic consequences ftom overcompensating.

[ElCani]

I'll ask you again as I have before to go and ride a bike with decent disc brakes for a few tens of thousands of miles then come back with an opinion base on that experience.

I don't think personal experience is even necessary in this instance, just a modicum of ability to think critically, weigh up available evidence and assess pros and cons. It's so obvious that disc brakes have certain advantages over rim brakes (and vice versa) and that those advantages may make them a good choice for certain users.

[reohn2]

I'll ask you again as I have before to go and ride a bike with decent disc brakes for a few tens of thousands of miles then come back with an opinion base on that experience.

I don't think personal experience is even necessary in this instance, just a modicum of ability to think critically, weigh up available evidence and assess pros and cons. It's so obvious that disc brakes have certain advantages over rim brakes (and vice versa) and that those advantages may make them a good choice for certain users.

I can only agree though experience can only add to none experiential knowledge.
Choice is a good thing,unfounded prejudice isn't

[ElCani]

Didn't realise moderators can edit/delete posts without making it clear they have done so, but there you go...

[reohn2]

On thinking about this, I considered three scenarios:

1. A bike with cantilever brakes that saw the donkey at x yards/metres and was able to stop in time.
2. A bike with disc brakes that saw the donkey at zero yards/metres and couldn't stop in time.
3. A bike with disc brakes that saw the donkey at x - y yards/metres and was able to stop in time.

It doesn't really matter what brakes you have, you still need to know that you have to stop (i.e. warning time), you still cannot stop instantly (or you go over the bars) and you still have to allow for conditions (even with disc brakes - cars pulling out etc). So your riding will change with disc brakes but in essence nothing changes. Of course, if your cantilevers are poorly adjusted etc and really don't stop you then, yes, good discs are better.

wrong, thinking time reduces when you believe you can brake later and from a higher speed, classic consequences ftom overcompensating.

Thinking time can be reduced or even eliminated by emergency.
You seem,once again to be criticising a better and more reliable brake system in adverse conditions for reasons unknown.

[Vorpal]

A few posts have been deleted or edited. Please comply with forum guidelines viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3661
Thanks

[mig]

i ride fixed with two brakes for most of the time but i'd still shout at the donkey to get out of the way

[horizon]

I don't think personal experience is even necessary in this instance, just a modicum of ability to think critically, weigh up available evidence and assess pros and cons. It's so obvious that disc brakes have certain advantages over rim brakes (and vice versa) and that those advantages may make them a good choice for certain users.

+ 1 (to the whole of your post). I agree with reohn2 that experience also helps - of course it does but UTC is robustly putting forward his opinions on one side of the argument - which is great. No need for anyone to get upset about this discussion - at least the protagonists have strongly held, critical, personal views which is more than you will get in pages of advertising and marketing buff.

[slowster]

It seems to me that some of the points being made for and against disc vs rim brakes are not mutually exclusive. I think in some conditions disc brakes are far better than rim brakes. I also strongly suspect some/many disc brake users, especially when riding on the road, exploit the better braking to the full.

Riding closer to the limit of your bike's capability to safely stop and your own ability is entirely your choice off road. It's a different matter on the road.

Even though I was not there, Avspider's description of a near miss with a donkey and the comment 'I was riding well within my abilities' strikes me as the same attitude as that of so many car drivers, who conclude that if they don't actually hit a cyclist when making a close pass or other unsafe manouevre, then their standard of driving is acceptable or even good.

Sometimes an incident can genuinely happen without any warning, and better brakes may make the difference between a very nasty collision and a near miss - as I said above, a deer crossing the road is a good example, because they bolt across the road very quickly from cover and you can have absolutely no time to take any evasive action. But I am deeply sceptical that a donkey suddenly appeared and ran across the road, such that it would not have been possible to see the animal and moderate speed/direction before it became necessary to perform an emergency stop.

When I have a near miss, even if I have not been the cause of the incident, I always think back and ask myself what I could or should have done differently and try to learn from the experience. I don't boast about the superiority of my brakes and tell myself I was riding well within my abilities.

Disc brakes may be more effective in many conditions, but it does not follow that a rider with disc brakes is safer than another rider with rim brakes, because it's the rider that determines how safe they are on the bike, not the brakes.