Frame back from framebuilders with wrong rear spacing

[Steveo2020]

Hi

Slightly strange one this.

I recently had a frame repaired and resprayed. The repair was the RH chainstay, which had cracked. The respray is lovely.

When building it back up I couldn't get the 135mm rear hub back in and eventually realised that the frame had come back with 130mm spacing!

It is a bike that carries loads, so the 135mm hub is preferable. I guess if I rang the builder they would easily re-set it to 35mm. However, the rear triangle has been cold set twice previously in its life (once when being vandalised and once when being straightened back). Am I right to be concerned about it being done a third time? Am I better just to go for a 130mm hub instead?

Thoughts welcome!

Cheers

Steve

[531colin]

I think all this should have been agreed with the framebuilder and set down in writing before starting the job.
That is the frame has been vandalised, and straightened, and the stay has subsequently cracked.....seeing that in writing would focus the mind of a framebuilder.
Would you guarantee the work? Would a complete new back end price the job out of the market, or is the respray still the thick end of the cost?
If the paperwork says 135mm and its 130mm, then its wrong. Cold-setting to 135 is only 2.5mm a side, but every time you bend it you are building in stresses, and the cyclic stresses of pedalling are superimposed on those stresses.

[Steveo2020]

I think all this should have been agreed with the framebuilder and set down in writing before starting the job.
That is the frame has been vandalised, and straightened, and the stay has subsequently cracked.....seeing that in writing would focus the mind of a framebuilder.
Would you guarantee the work? Would a complete new back end price the job out of the market, or is the respray still the thick end of the cost?
If the paperwork says 135mm and its 130mm, then its wrong. Cold-setting to 135 is only 2.5mm a side, but every time you bend it you are building in stresses, and the cyclic stresses of pedalling are superimposed on those stresses.

Thanks. I'm certainly not going to fall out with anyone over it and no one is guaranteeing anything. It was in the balance whether to get a whole new rear end. I accepted a degree of risk in not doing so. Having accepted that I'm inclined not to make it worse by respacing the frame again, and go for a 130mm hub.

We never talked about the spacing - I don't think it was unreasonable to assume it would come out with the same spacing it went in with. It's just one of those things though and it certainly isn't the framebuilder's fault that the question of respacing is more vexed than it normally would be.

[tim-b]

Hi
I'd query it with the frame builder if you only want advice and a recommendation
Regards
tim-b

[Vorpal]

We never talked about the spacing - I don't think it was unreasonable to assume it would come out with the same spacing it went in with. It's just one of those things though and it certainly isn't the framebuilder's fault that the question of respacing is more vexed than it normally would be.

If it was damaged, was it obvious what the spacing was?

[greyingbeard]

perhaps it was 130 originally, and the cracked stay was a result of subsequent manipulations ??

[recordacefromnew]

If you only asked them to repair the cracked RH chainstay I don't see why the LH dropout position would have been significantly altered. If the LH position was not altered I don't see how the frame can now be symmetric, assuming it was before (which can be established by checking the symmetry of the original 135mm hubbed wheel).

So I would take a string out and check the frame symmetry before doing anything else. If it is symmetric and 130mm OLN then they have altered the LH (so it is not unreasonable to ask why), or the alternative is you now have an asymmetric frame...

String method: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html#symmetry

[JohnW]

If you only asked them to repair the cracked RH chainstay I don't see why the LH dropout position would have been significantly altered. If the LH position was not altered I don't see how the frame can now be symmetric, assuming it was before (which can be established by checking the symmetry of the original 135mm hubbed wheel).

So I would take a string out and check the frame symmetry before doing anything else. If it is symmetric and 130mm OLN then they have altered the LH (so it is not unreasonable to ask why), or the alternative is you now have an asymmetric frame...

String method: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html#symmetry

Steve - it's an awful situation and it would certainly worry me until it was sorted. The issue that "recordacefromnew" has highlighted is crucial, and had occurred to me as I read your original post, and I'd follow that through.

There are relevant comments and good advice above, and I think you need to discuss it in detail with your framebuilder - at least find out what's happened and how it's happened.

I've had frames re-set from 120 to 126mm and not had any subsequent problem, but only once on any one frame. This is just me, and I may be over-cautious, but I wouldn't want to have a frame cold-set twice. Other members may know better though.

[Steveo2020]

Thanks all

It is strange that it altered. The spacing was definitely 135mm when it went in - the wheel had been in and out several times with no bother in the previous weeks. The damage and repair from the vandalism was about 10 years ago so I don't think that was a factor. The chainstay being replaced this time was cracked and corroded, but it was still rideable and so I don't think it would have altered.

Thanks for the suggestion of the string method - I have done that and it appears straight thankfully.

I think I will probably just use a 130mm hub and forget about it. I will ring the framebuilder out of curiosity though.

Steve

[stewartpratt]

You're very calm about it. I'd be livid.

Seriously, you're just going to accept being forced to change wheels, on a frame that's potentially asymmetric?

[kuba]

You're very calm about it. I'd be livid.

Seriously, you're just going to accept being forced to change wheels, on a frame that's potentially asymmetric?

Unless the frame was asymmetric before it went in (i.e. the first repair was done badly) and it may have given an appearance os 130 mm spacing. Doesn't seem to be the case from the OP's post though.

[iandriver]

What is the actual measurement between the dropouts now? Unlikely to be exactly 130mm. If you've got a few old bits hanging around, it's not necessarily that hard to re-space a hub to 132.5 (depending on the hub), I've just done it with an LX hub with a different spacer and shortening the axle slightly. Obviously I had to re-dish the wheel.

Edit: Quite a nice picture here of respaced hubs

[Steveo2020]

Well I spoke to the builder. Their view was that the spacing would have moved a bit during the replacement of the chain stay and then they assumed, because it looks like a road frame, that it was 130mm. He said there was nothing to worry about it being respaced. I will think about that.

As for being calm about it - I would not have been worried at all but for the frame's slightly unfortunate history which wasn't the builder's fault. It is a simple but understandable mistake that just happened to have more implications for me. And anyway there are worse things in life than riding with a hub 5mm narrower than you planned.

Thanks for all the input everyone.

Steve

[Steveo2020]

What is the actual measurement between the dropouts now? Unlikely to be exactly 130mm. If you've got a few old bits hanging around, it's not necessarily that hard to re-space a hub to 132.5 (depending on the hub), I've just done it with an LX hub with a different spacer and shortening the axle slightly. Obviously I had to re-dish the wheel.

Edit: Quite a nice picture here of respaced hubs

Thanks - that could work. Prob got the bits kicking about. The wheel needs a new rim so redishing is no prob.

Steve

[stewartpratt]

So did they confirm that they'd re-set the left hand stays? Either they did, in which case you'd think they'd have thought "hey, maybe this frame that was presumably previously correct isn't 130 after all", or they didn't, and you now have a misaligned frame.

I still think if I got my frame back and had to replace, or respace and redish, my rear wheel, even if it was correctly aligned, I'd be just a little miffed. You don't take a car in to have a cracked suspension arm replaced, find out the wheel now fouls the wheelarch so you can't drive it, and then just shrug and buy a smaller wheel… surely?