English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

[Bmblbzzz]

Cloth-eared misuse of "stranded."
The strand is the beach, and a ship is stranded when it has run up immovably onto the beach.

So when a ferry and its passengers are said to be "stranded in mid-Channel" it grates.

There was an inadvertent correct use about the pilot whales stranded on the Tasmanian coast, but a little spoilt when they were described as "stranded off Tasmania".

You'd prefer "marooned"? But they might not have any chestnuts!

[Jdsk]

: - )

Jonathan

[Paulatic]

Those are both ugly.

Generally agree with you: if in doubt close the sentence and start the next. Have you ever read anything by Denning? The greatest exponent of the short sentence.

Chaucer and Shakespeare wrote I’ve never heard them speak.

So you're happy with its use in writing but not in speaking?

Jonathan

You are challenging me there
Used correctly how could I not be happy I’m bound to use it myself.
Interestingly though you ended that sentence with a question mark. Without the question mark I’d of taken that as a statement.
Personally I’d of made it an outright question and started with "are".

[Jdsk]

: - )

The "So" in that particular example ties it closer to the quoted precursor.

Jonathan

PS:

... I’d of made...

That does my head in... "have"...

[Paulatic]

: - )

The "So" in that particular example ties it closer to the quoted precursor.

Jonathan

PS:

... I’d of made...

That does my head in... "have"...

Does mine in as well but I’ve never managed to shake it off unless it’s a formal letter I’d pour over.

[Jdsk]

Well you wouldn't want to flaunt the rules, would you?

Jonathan

[Audax67]

People confusing the verb to lie with the verb to lay.

To lie: https://chambers.co.uk/search/?query=lie&title=21st

To lay: https://chambers.co.uk/search/?query=lay&title=21st

In Standard English that is a confusion. In many regions it isn't. Usage differs.

Jonathan

I agree, but the confusion seems to reign out of all proportion on the internet - and kids are taught correct usage in school. At least they used to be.

[Audax67]

Cloth-eared misuse of "stranded."
The strand is the beach, and a ship is stranded when it has run up immovably onto the beach.

So when a ferry and its passengers are said to be "stranded in mid-Channel" it grates.

I don't have any trouble with it. English is suffused with nautical metaphor, mostly used without any idea that it is metaphor. At a loose end, hard and fast, hard up, chock-a-block, under way (never one word, never under weigh), log book... You can't condemn metaphorical use of strand without condemning all the others.

Admittedly, beached in mid-Channel is a bit incongruous.

[Mike Sales]

Cloth-eared misuse of "stranded."
The strand is the beach, and a ship is stranded when it has run up immovably onto the beach.

So when a ferry and its passengers are said to be "stranded in mid-Channel" it grates.

I don't have any trouble with it. English is suffused with nautical metaphor, mostly used without any idea that it is metaphor. At a loose end, hard and fast, hard up, chock-a-block, under way (never one word, never under weigh), log book... You can't condemn metaphorical use of strand without condemning all the others.

Admittedly, beached in mid-Channel is a bit incongruous.

I feel that when the metaphor can be used in a sense so far from its origin it has lost all force as a metaphor. It is just a hackneyed form of of words, and flabby language. I avoid cliche like the plague. Or should I say, like the Covid virus?

[DaveReading]

Cloth-eared misuse of "stranded."
The strand is the beach, and a ship is stranded when it has run up immovably onto the beach.

So when a ferry and its passengers are said to be "stranded in mid-Channel" it grates.

I don't have any trouble with it. English is suffused with nautical metaphor, mostly used without any idea that it is metaphor. At a loose end, hard and fast, hard up, chock-a-block, under way (never one word, never under weigh), log book... You can't condemn metaphorical use of strand without condemning all the others.

Admittedly, beached in mid-Channel is a bit incongruous.

I feel that when the metaphor can be used in a sense so far from its origin it has lost all force as a metaphor. It is just a hackneyed form of of words, and flabby language. I avoid cliche like the plague. Or should I say, like the Covid virus?

I note that you haven't actually suggested an acceptable alternative that conveys the same meaning as "stranded in mid-Channel".

[Mike Sales]

I note that you haven't actually suggested an acceptable alternative that conveys the same meaning as "stranded in mid-Channel".

Our language is very rich in different words with different shades of meaning which could convey more about the particular circumstances of the ferry's problem. I do not recall the details, but the boat might have been adrift without power, or unable to enter harbour because of heavy swell, or , because of leaking bow doors, unable to power into the weather, or whatever.
Stranded in mid-Channel is literally impossible.
English is rich in nautical imagery because an understanding of sea faring and its language was common.

[thirdcrank]

I note that you haven't actually suggested an acceptable alternative that conveys the same meaning as "stranded in mid-Channel".

Our language is very rich in different words with different shades of meaning which could convey more about the particular circumstances of the ferry's problem. I do not recall the details, but the boat might have been adrift without power, or unable to enter harbour because of heavy swell, or , because of leaking bow doors, unable to power into the weather, or whatever.
Stranded in mid-Channel is literally impossible.
English is rich in nautical imagery because an understanding of sea faring and its language was common.

I think you have to accept that usage rules and stranded with the meanings you do not like is now common usage and above all, given in dictionaries, in some before the original meaning. Did you have somebody such as an English teacher who made a point over this?

[Mike Sales]

I think you have to accept that usage rules and stranded with the meanings you do not like is now common usage and above all, given in dictionaries, in some before the original meaning. Did you have somebody such as an English teacher who made a point over this?

The topic is "what does your head in....?"

I cannot remember that my very good English teacher made this particular point, though, as English teachers tend to be, he was keen on using the words which best expressed what you wanted to say.
Perhaps I am over sensitive to etymology, which is why "stranded" does my head in.
I dislike cliches too, they are a substitute for thinking precisely about what you are saying, and disguise poor argument, all too often.

[thirdcrank]

I was interested to know why somebody would be displeased by a word which has changed meaning through usage, but no matter.

I was reminded within the last few days of being corrected in my teens by my own English teacher. In the early 1950s I went to the now-demolished Castleton Primary School which was next to Armley Gaol. Some years later, I described the nick as a "forboding building." He corrected me saying it was "forbidding." Only the other day I read something describing HMP as "forboding." It triggered a memory (if I may use a cliché.)

If I had a pound for everybody who said they had been robbed when their house had been burgled ......

[Cyril Haearn]

'Doggered' could be used for 'stranded', meaning a vessel is stuck fast on Dogger Bank