I've just been listening to someone who knows more than me discussing whether powerful Scandinavians and powerful Anglo-Saxons who met in England during the Danelaw would have been able to understand each other. They probably could.
Jonathan
I've just been listening to someone who knows more than me discussing whether powerful Scandinavians and powerful Anglo-Saxons who met in England during the Danelaw would have been able to understand each other. They probably could.
Hence the bridge in the avatar - Kylesku Bridge in Sutherland (furthest north I've been - I cycled around Assynt from Achmelvich in 2018, turned left to see the bridge but then headed back down to Bonar Bridge for the night).
Maybe I'm comparing it too much to Manx Gaelic which has some Viking influence ( a few "Sk" words in it.)Vorpal wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 1:22pmActually I find lots of things that are the same or similar between Norwegian & English. I aslo think this is really interesting...Cowsham wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 12:52pm Taking of origins of words it's surprising to me how little influence the Viking language had on English as we know it now.
You'd think it would have had more since Vikings were sort of assimilated into the Anglo Saxon culture here.
Vorpal you lot did a lot of raping and pillaging but not much swearing.
Some words have the same roots between Germanic languages, and others are clearly Old Norse in origin.
Club, gun, berserk, get, go, egg, law, lake, skin, sky, ski (and many other 'sk' and 'sc' words), gift, crawl, much, muggy, seem, see, say, window, bread, will, win, want, gang. etc.
either come from Old Norse, or have the same roots.
Many of them are the same word in Norwegian as English with a slightly different spelling or pronunciation. 'w', for example is not used, so 'window' is 'vindu', which interestingly comes from Old Norse for eye of the wind (vindauga)
Some are listed by etymologists as being from Old English, for example 'all', but the same word is in use in Norwegian (alle, alt), so it doesn't completely make sense to me. 'sofa' is listed in etymology as being of Arabic origin, but in Icelandic, it means 'to sleep', and Norwegian has a similar word, 'sover'
The origin of to go spare, as in get angry, derives from the Cockney rhyming slang ‘spare tyre’ meaning to show your ire, by extension to get irate.Jdsk wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 2:01pmThanks.Vorpal wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 1:51pmI don't always note that things that don't make sense, but there are many 'false friends' between English and Norwegian.
Our word 'spare' has the same origins as 'spare' in Norwegian, but in Norwegian, it means to save, instead of extra parts (more like to spare a life than a spare part), but my kids often use it with money, as in, "I will spare my money until I have enough for the new game".
More false friends, please... and I'll start from the position that they're likely to have a common root and divergent usage.
Jonathan
PS: Any theories on the origin of to go spare?
It depends exactly how it’s used. For example ‘so be it’ is fine. ‘So wadidiz yeah, is that I din do nuffink’ is very bad. ‘So what my mates and I did was………’ not quite as bad, but still irritating, especially if there was nothing said / written before it. ‘So to be clear…….’ nearly as irritating, especially if used in isolation, and not following anything.Jdsk wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 1:55pmAlso extensively discussed upthread. But it was used in that way by many great writers:Marcus Aurelius wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 1:49pm Starting a sentence with ‘so’. It really really irritates me.
viewtopic.php?p=1533154#p1533154
As always... why is it so irritating, please?
Thanks
Jonathan
PS: Did I manage to avoid it... that wasn't easy. ; - )
Going beyond Viking, sk-/sh- is reckoned to derive from a PIE root for cutting, giving us words like scissors, skirt and shirt.Cowsham wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 8:25pmMaybe I'm comparing it too much to Manx Gaelic which has some Viking influence ( a few "Sk" words in it.)Vorpal wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 1:22pmActually I find lots of things that are the same or similar between Norwegian & English. I aslo think this is really interesting...Cowsham wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 12:52pm Taking of origins of words it's surprising to me how little influence the Viking language had on English as we know it now.
You'd think it would have had more since Vikings were sort of assimilated into the Anglo Saxon culture here.
Vorpal you lot did a lot of raping and pillaging but not much swearing.
Some words have the same roots between Germanic languages, and others are clearly Old Norse in origin.
Club, gun, berserk, get, go, egg, law, lake, skin, sky, ski (and many other 'sk' and 'sc' words), gift, crawl, much, muggy, seem, see, say, window, bread, will, win, want, gang. etc.
either come from Old Norse, or have the same roots.
Many of them are the same word in Norwegian as English with a slightly different spelling or pronunciation. 'w', for example is not used, so 'window' is 'vindu', which interestingly comes from Old Norse for eye of the wind (vindauga)
Some are listed by etymologists as being from Old English, for example 'all', but the same word is in use in Norwegian (alle, alt), so it doesn't completely make sense to me. 'sofa' is listed in etymology as being of Arabic origin, but in Icelandic, it means 'to sleep', and Norwegian has a similar word, 'sover'
And science! Which allows us to work this stuff out. : - )Bmblbzzz wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021, 11:33amGoing beyond Viking, sk-/sh- is reckoned to derive from a PIE root for cutting, giving us words like scissors, skirt and shirt.Cowsham wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 8:25pmMaybe I'm comparing it too much to Manx Gaelic which has some Viking influence ( a few "Sk" words in it.)Vorpal wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 1:22pm Actually I find lots of things that are the same or similar between Norwegian & English. I aslo think this is really interesting...
Some words have the same roots between Germanic languages, and others are clearly Old Norse in origin.
Club, gun, berserk, get, go, egg, law, lake, skin, sky, ski (and many other 'sk' and 'sc' words), gift, crawl, much, muggy, seem, see, say, window, bread, will, win, want, gang. etc.
either come from Old Norse, or have the same roots.
Many of them are the same word in Norwegian as English with a slightly different spelling or pronunciation. 'w', for example is not used, so 'window' is 'vindu', which interestingly comes from Old Norse for eye of the wind (vindauga)
Some are listed by etymologists as being from Old English, for example 'all', but the same word is in use in Norwegian (alle, alt), so it doesn't completely make sense to me. 'sofa' is listed in etymology as being of Arabic origin, but in Icelandic, it means 'to sleep', and Norwegian has a similar word, 'sover'
Are there many words of Scandinavian/ Norse origin in Manx? Apart from the names of places and people?Cowsham wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 8:25pmMaybe I'm comparing it too much to Manx Gaelic which has some Viking influence ( a few "Sk" words in it.)Vorpal wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 1:22pmActually I find lots of things that are the same or similar between Norwegian & English. I aslo think this is really interesting...Cowsham wrote: ↑15 Sep 2021, 12:52pm Taking of origins of words it's surprising to me how little influence the Viking language had on English as we know it now.
You'd think it would have had more since Vikings were sort of assimilated into the Anglo Saxon culture here.
Vorpal you lot did a lot of raping and pillaging but not much swearing.
Some words have the same roots between Germanic languages, and others are clearly Old Norse in origin.
Club, gun, berserk, get, go, egg, law, lake, skin, sky, ski (and many other 'sk' and 'sc' words), gift, crawl, much, muggy, seem, see, say, window, bread, will, win, want, gang. etc.
either come from Old Norse, or have the same roots.
Many of them are the same word in Norwegian as English with a slightly different spelling or pronunciation. 'w', for example is not used, so 'window' is 'vindu', which interestingly comes from Old Norse for eye of the wind (vindauga)
Some are listed by etymologists as being from Old English, for example 'all', but the same word is in use in Norwegian (alle, alt), so it doesn't completely make sense to me. 'sofa' is listed in etymology as being of Arabic origin, but in Icelandic, it means 'to sleep', and Norwegian has a similar word, 'sover'
hmm. I gather you mean 'skei'.
But I think that has the same PIE root... skyrte... skurtaz... *(s)ker.Vorpal wrote: ↑16 Sep 2021, 12:01pmhmm. I gather you mean 'skei'.
Scissors, maybe (and words like ski, shive, shingle, shin, etc.).
But Shirt & skirt both come from Old Norse 'skyrte', and are similar in modern Norwegian (skjorte and skjørt, respectively). The roots of 'skyrte' according to Norwegian etymology & Wiktionary, is Proto-Germanic skurtijǭ
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/skirt
Interesting. I thought they were unrelated, but they aren't...