English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

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Vorpal
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Vorpal »

There's all sorts of stuff packed into a simple-seeming question....

I'm not sure that the journalism in this case would be improved by passive voice. To the contrary, I think it likely that it would just add some ises and wases (those aren't words ;) ) without adding to clarity. The problem here is poor writing and editing, rather than active versus passive voice.

There are several reasons not to use passive voice in reporting. One of them is exactly that passive voice encourages the writer to leave the subjects/actors out, and replace them with 'it' and 'there'. Instead of 'May committed to...' you end up with 'There was commitment...'

Passive voice has, for many years (see what I did there), been considered an appropriate way to present ideas without emphasizing the actor. It is often used in science and technology because we are interested in the results of experiments, not who did them.

The castle was built in the 14th century (we are interested in when the castle was built, rather than who built it)
Theresa May committed to a deadline for .... (we are interest both in who did it and what is happening)

Passive voice also takes up more space on the page, which to a media company is cost.

Lastly, when there are both actors/subjects and events to describe, active voice will typically be clearer than passive voice. It is for this reason that writing guides, teachers, and those who study that language generally advise writers and journalist to use active voice. MS Word in the last couple of versions recommends active voice under review.

If you read a novel in passive voice, it would be boring. :lol:
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horizon
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by horizon »

Thanks for that Vorpal. I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I used to teach the importance of the active voice but for the reason that it makes for more effective speech and writing. Removing the passive from some verbs without putting in the real actor though is something else:

It was launched needs to be they launched it, not it launched.
There was commitment needs to be May has committed her cabinet, not May committed to

There is a technical term for using a verb in such a way as "the door opened". Unless it is electric or the wind blew it, it cannot open by itself so the construction is used for dramatic effect. This forum uses mainly language for its communication so I think having an outlet for discussions like this is good. The Guardian also does so the forum provides an outlet for the occasional frustration from that direction as well.
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Chris Jeggo
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Chris Jeggo »

"You're a peedant", said my son.

"It's pronounced peddant", I replied.

"See what I mean!"
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Audax67
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Audax67 »

The missus came out with that gruesome Americanism "pickpocketed" the other day. I blame that Internet thing.
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Audax67 wrote:The missus came out with that gruesome Americanism "pickpocketed" the other day. I blame that Internet thing.

What does you head in in French? Is the Academie Franchise* still trying to preserve "la francais profonde"?

German uses a lot of words from English, I try to avoid them, try to use German words
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by thirdcrank »

A few months ago I mentioned the use of the word "colleague" to mean someone who works here. In Tesco the other day and they were advertising for temporary workers for the pre-Christmas period although it said "Festive colleagues." I've been online to remind myself of the qualities sought:
You will be responsible for

Being passionate about service and want to help to give our customers their best Christmas ever

Wanting to be part of a team that work together to serve customers a little better every day

Thriving on customer interaction and want to go the extra mile

Having an interest in learning new skills and build your retail knowledge

https://www.tesco-careers.com/jobdetails/321214/
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Bmblbzzz »

It's the normal marketing-hype verbal escalation.
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Responsible for being passionate, +1

I would like that, do not live in Gainsborough unfortunately :wink:
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Mick F
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mick F »

Being passionate about service and want to help to give our customers their best Christmas ever
Wanting to be part of a team that work together to serve customers a little better every day
Thriving on customer interaction and want to go the extra mile
Having an interest in learning new skills and build your retail knowledge
Yuk!
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Mick F wrote:
Being passionate about service and want to help to give our customers their best Christmas ever
Wanting to be part of a team that work together to serve customers a little better every day
Thriving on customer interaction and want to go the extra mile
Having an interest in learning new skills and build your retail knowledge
Yuk!

I am compiling your autobiography from posts on these fora, the text could apply to your RN career, or were other phrases used back then? :wink:
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by drossall »

Our local station announcements currently warn of the need for care when "boarding and alighting trains". I'm unclear why they are encouraging [passengers]customers to set their rolling stock on fire.
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by 661-Pete »

Another one on a railway theme: improper use of the word "carnage".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45885867
In the words of one tweeter, "It's carnage with no-one informing passengers that arrive to change at Reading."
To me, the word 'carnage' evokes images of blood and gore and bodies scattered everywhere. Not a crowd of hapless and infuriated passengers stomping about on the platform just because the 8:17's been cancelled... :twisted:
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Cyril Haearn »

The 8:07 will be along soon :wink:

I wonder how the scenes at Gloucester during the change of gauge could have been described :?
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661-Pete
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by 661-Pete »

Do you mean, when Brunel's 7ft was supplanted by the present-day 4ft 8½? I imagine, a few trains might have got derailed before they realised...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Cyril Haearn »

661-Pete wrote:Do you mean, when Brunel's 7ft was supplanted by the present-day 4ft 8½? I imagine, a few trains might have got derailed before they realised...

Of course, some backward countries still have different gauges (Australia :wink:)
When the GWR realised the writing was on the wall it started to build convertible engines
I understand the change was properly planned, the last broad gauge trains ran in 1892, you may see replicas at Didcot

Pedants corner: it was sevenfeetanda*quarterinch* :wink: That made the curves easier

The GWR was always a bit different, even after nationalisation tradition persisted, likewise the LSWR as I found when I worked there from 1994
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