English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

[Vorpal]

Mind you, all these crimes are as nothing beside those of idiots who use autocomplete on their phones and don't bottle to really their test massage before sending it.

True. Followed closely by those who split their infinitives.

Thus the splitter of infinitives* to arrested be...

Love is my sin, and thy dear virtue hate,
Hate of my sin, grounded on sinful loving.
O, but with mine compare thou thine own state,
And thou shalt find it merits not reproving;
Or if it do, not from those lips of thine,
That have profaned their scarlet ornaments
And sealed false bonds of love as oft as mine,
Robbed others’ beds’ revenues of their rents.
Be it lawful I love thee as thou lov’st those
Whom thine eyes woo as mine importune thee:
Root pity in thy heart, that, when it grows,
Thy pity may deserve to pitied be.
If thou dost seek to have what thou dost hide,
By self-example mayst thou be denied.

*Shakespeare. It's Shakespeare.

[Cowsham]

Yes, wright and wrought both related to work. It's wreak that's different. And that's the problem with wreaked/ wrought.

Jonathan

Wreak is related to wreck, wrack, rack, and wretch, but not wrought!
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=wreak

Taking of origins of words it's surprising to me how little influence the Viking language had on English as we know it now.

You'd think it would have had more since Vikings were sort of assimilated into the Anglo Saxon culture here.

Vorpal you lot did a lot of raping and pillaging but not much swearing.

[661-Pete]

Thus the splitter of infinitives* to arrested be...

.....
Thy pity may deserve to pitied be.
.....

*Shakespeare. It's Shakespeare.

Ahem.

That's not a split infinitive A split infinitive is when someone puts a qualifier - usually an adverb or adverbial phrase - between the word "to" and the verb following. What the Bard writes is merely poetic inversion. The sort of language Yoda speaks - and I doubt if Yoda ever an infinitive split....

[thirdcrank]

Shakespeare never had six lines together without a fault.
- Samuel Johnson

But his stuff was published from scrawled manuscripts so nobody knows where errors may have crept in. It does seem to mean that we treat as settled authority something which was an early form of typo

[Vorpal]

Thus the splitter of infinitives* to arrested be...

.....
Thy pity may deserve to pitied be.
.....

*Shakespeare. It's Shakespeare.

Ahem.

That's not a split infinitive A split infinitive is when someone puts a qualifier - usually an adverb or adverbial phrase - between the word "to" and the verb following. What the Bard writes is merely poetic inversion. The sort of language Yoda speaks - and I doubt if Yoda ever an infinitive split....

It looks to me like he split the infinitive. He didn't use an adverb, (a la 'to boldly go'), but he stuck something between 'to' and it's verb. I don't know what else one would call that?

[sjs]

Hasn't this old chestnut arisen before in this thread? A prohibition invented in the nineteenth century solely for the purpose of pouring scorn on those who did not know the "rule".

[Vorpal]

Taking of origins of words it's surprising to me how little influence the Viking language had on English as we know it now.

You'd think it would have had more since Vikings were sort of assimilated into the Anglo Saxon culture here.

Vorpal you lot did a lot of raping and pillaging but not much swearing.

Actually I find lots of things that are the same or similar between Norwegian & English. I aslo think this is really interesting...

Some words have the same roots between Germanic languages, and others are clearly Old Norse in origin.

Club, gun, berserk, get, go, egg, law, lake, skin, sky, ski (and many other 'sk' and 'sc' words), gift, crawl, much, muggy, seem, see, say, window, bread, will, win, want, gang. etc.

either come from Old Norse, or have the same roots.

Many of them are the same word in Norwegian as English with a slightly different spelling or pronunciation. 'w', for example is not used, so 'window' is 'vindu', which interestingly comes from Old Norse for eye of the wind (vindauga)

Some are listed by etymologists as being from Old English, for example 'all', but the same word is in use in Norwegian (alle, alt), so it doesn't completely make sense to me. 'sofa' is listed in etymology as being of Arabic origin, but in Icelandic, it means 'to sleep', and Norwegian has a similar word, 'sover'

[Jdsk]

Thus the splitter of infinitives* to arrested be...

*Shakespeare. It's Shakespeare.

Ahem.

That's not a split infinitive A split infinitive is when someone puts a qualifier - usually an adverb or adverbial phrase - between the word "to" and the verb following. What the Bard writes is merely poetic inversion. The sort of language Yoda speaks - and I doubt if Yoda ever an infinitive split....

It looks to me like he split the infinitive. He didn't use an adverb, (a la 'to boldly go'), but he stuck something between 'to' and it's verb. I don't know what else one would call that?

It is a split infinitive. It is a poetic inversion.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Hasn't this old chestnut arisen before in this thread? A prohibition invented in the nineteenth century solely for the purpose of pouring scorn on those who did not know the "rule".

It has.

It was prohibited by pundits in the nineteenth century.

Although it might not be "solely" for that purpose:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_infinitive

But current invocation is overwhelmingly just as you say... " that awful person over there doesn't know how to speak properly". Which is closely related to "This is what I was taught in school, so it must be correct". And other nonsense.

Jonathan

[Jdsk]

Taking of origins of words it's surprising to me how little influence the Viking language had on English as we know it now.

You'd think it would have had more since Vikings were sort of assimilated into the Anglo Saxon culture here.

Vorpal you lot did a lot of raping and pillaging but not much swearing.

Actually I find lots of things that are the same or similar between Norwegian & English. I aslo think this is really interesting...

Some words have the same roots between Germanic languages, and others are clearly Old Norse in origin.

Club, gun, berserk, get, go, egg, law, lake, skin, sky, ski (and many other 'sk' and 'sc' words), gift, crawl, much, muggy, seem, see, say, window, bread, will, win, want, gang. etc.

either come from Old Norse, or have the same roots.

Many of them are the same word in Norwegian as English with a slightly different spelling or pronunciation. 'w', for example is not used, so 'window' is 'vindu', which interestingly comes from Old Norse for eye of the wind (vindauga)

Some are listed by etymologists as being from Old English, for example 'all', but the same word is in use in Norwegian (alle, alt), so it doesn't completely make sense to me. 'sofa' is listed in etymology as being of Arabic origin, but in Icelandic, it means 'to sleep', and Norwegian has a similar word, 'sover'

Yes, but more on the bit that doesn't make sense, please.

Thanks

Jonathan

PS: There never was a "Viking language". Or a Viking people. It was a thing that people did, not what they were.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Starting a sentence with ‘so’. It really really irritates me.

[Vorpal]

Yes, but more on the bit that doesn't make sense, please.

Thanks

Jonathan

PS: There never was a "Viking language". Or a Viking people. It was a thing that people did, not what they were.

It's true! The Vikings were surprisingly diverse.

The word 'vik' just means inlet or creek mouth in Norwegian. I guess they are good places to ground boats. (though I gather the origin of the word 'Viking' is somewhat in dispute, even in Scandinavia)

I don't always note that things that don't make sense, but there are many 'false friends' between English and Norwegian.

Our word 'spare' has the same origins as 'spare' in Norwegian, but in Norwegian, it means to save, instead of extra parts (more like to spare a life than a spare part), but my kids often use it with money, as in, "I will spare my money until I have enough for the new game".

[DaveReading]

Starting a sentence with ‘so’. It really really irritates me.

So do lots of other things, presumably?

[Jdsk]

Starting a sentence with ‘so’. It really really irritates me.

Also extensively discussed upthread. But it was used in that way by many great writers:
viewtopic.php?p=1533154#p1533154

As always... why is it so irritating, please?

Thanks

Jonathan

PS: Did I manage to avoid it... that wasn't easy. ; - )

[Jdsk]

Yes, but more on the bit that doesn't make sense, please.

I don't always note that things that don't make sense, but there are many 'false friends' between English and Norwegian.

Our word 'spare' has the same origins as 'spare' in Norwegian, but in Norwegian, it means to save, instead of extra parts (more like to spare a life than a spare part), but my kids often use it with money, as in, "I will spare my money until I have enough for the new game".

Thanks.

More false friends, please... and I'll start from the position that they're likely to have a common root and divergent usage.

Jonathan

PS: Any theories on the origin of to go spare?