English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Separate forum to permit easy exclusion when searching for serious information !
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Mike Sales wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 9:54am
Jdsk wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 9:42am But why does the young chap's usage annoy you, please?
It annoys me because it is another example of the steadily increasing Americanisation of our English.
Thank you

Jonathan
mattheus
Posts: 5030
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by mattheus »

Wilhelmus wrote: 21 Nov 2021, 4:44pm Why do English reporters and presenters have so much trouble with the title Taoiseach? I've never heard it pronounced correctly here yet - 'tea shock' is about the closest most of them can manage
"tea shock" is pretty close, isn't it?

Makes you wonder how the Irish fail to pronounce so many common English words anywhere close to the correct way.
Mike Sales
Posts: 7860
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mike Sales »

mattheus wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 1:12pm
Wilhelmus wrote: 21 Nov 2021, 4:44pm Why do English reporters and presenters have so much trouble with the title Taoiseach? I've never heard it pronounced correctly here yet - 'tea shock' is about the closest most of them can manage
"tea shock" is pretty close, isn't it?

Makes you wonder how the Irish fail to pronounce so many common English words anywhere close to the correct way.
At the top of the cliffs of Moher in Co. Clare I saw a sign "Anyone caught trowing stones will be prosecuted".
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Ray
Posts: 1087
Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 11:10am
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Ray »

Mike Sales wrote:
At the top of the cliffs of Moher in Co. Clare I saw a sign "Anyone caught trowing stones will be prosecuted".
:lol:
Ray
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertrand Russell
sjs
Posts: 1305
Joined: 24 Jan 2010, 10:08pm
Location: Hitchin

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by sjs »

Mick F wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 9:36am Was in the pub yesterday afternoon and I heard a young chap asking for a pint.
He said, "Can I get a pint of Legend?"

This put me in mind of a couple of years ago in a different pub, when the same question was asked (different beer though).
The landlord answered bluntly, "No."
The young chap looked shocked and bemused.
The landlord went on, "You can buy one and have one, but I will get one for you."


Excellent! :D
Is there another pub nearby? If so, they've probably gained a customer.
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56349
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mick F »

Get and have are two different words and used in two different ways.
Americanisms?
Dunno, but language evolves, but it doesn't stop it being annoying to people who use the words correctly.

You can go and get your shopping from the car, or have a beer or two.
You can buy your shopping, and you can be in a pub and ask to have a beer please.

"Can I get a beer?" whilst asking the bar-staff isn't correct in the slightest.
You can buy one and have it served, then another one for a mate, then take his to the table, and then go and get yours.
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 3:29pm Get and have are two different words and used in two different ways.
Americanisms?
Dunno, but language evolves, but it doesn't stop it being annoying to people who use the words correctly.

You can go and get your shopping from the car, or have a beer or two.
You can buy your shopping, and you can be in a pub and ask to have a beer please.

"Can I get a beer?" whilst asking the bar-staff isn't correct in the slightest.
You can buy one and have it served, then another one for a mate, then take his to the table, and then go and get yours.
My question wasn't whether you think it's correct... it's why you think it isn't. Well, nearly... I actually asked about annoyance and it isn't actually obligatory to be annoyed by other people's mistakes.

Jonathan
mattheus
Posts: 5030
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by mattheus »

Jdsk wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 3:33pm ...
My question wasn't whether you think it's correct... it's why you think it isn't. Well, nearly... I actually asked about annoyance and it isn't actually obligatory to be annoyed by other people's mistakes.
If no-one did get annoyed, then I doubt we'd have this wonderful thread to comment on:
" English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

mattheus wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 3:46pm
Jdsk wrote: 22 Nov 2021, 3:33pm ...
My question wasn't whether you think it's correct... it's why you think it isn't. Well, nearly... I actually asked about annoyance and it isn't actually obligatory to be annoyed by other people's mistakes.
If no-one did get annoyed, then I doubt we'd have this wonderful thread to comment on:
" English Language - what "Does your head in" ??
I see what you mean. But if it had a different title perhaps we'd still have the fascinating discussion about English usage and the differences between the different Englishes and how languages change without the denigration of and contempt for other people.

Jonathan
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 56349
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mick F »

Weather forecasts.

Quote from one today.
a little sleet or snow over the moors. Turning drier .............
Another one.
Still rather cold but turning milder ...............
If it's wet, it can't be drier.
If it's cold, it can't be milder.

It can be wet, then dry.
It can be cold, then it less cold, or even mild.
If it's dry, it can be dryer.
If it's mild, it can be milder.
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
Posts: 24478
Joined: 5 Mar 2019, 5:42pm

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 28 Nov 2021, 5:59pmIf it's wet, it can't be drier.
If it's cold, it can't be milder.

It can be wet, then dry.
It can be cold, then it less cold, or even mild.
If it's dry, it can be dryer.
If it's mild, it can be milder.
Is -273 °C colder than 1,000 °C?

Thanks

Jonathan

PS: The answer, of course is that the comparative form is used in two different ways: the same property but more or less of it, and for position along a scale. regardless of the initial position. Both are standard English usage. The topic is known as gradability of adjectives.
Slowtwitch
Posts: 744
Joined: 25 Oct 2021, 11:35pm

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Slowtwitch »

My pet hate is 'turning milder', milder than tropical storms or winter gales!? It's the most vanilla statement a weather forecaster can use :lol:
mattheus
Posts: 5030
Joined: 29 Dec 2008, 12:57pm
Location: Western Europe

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by mattheus »

Jdsk wrote: 28 Nov 2021, 6:16pm
Mick F wrote: 28 Nov 2021, 5:59pmIf it's wet, it can't be drier.
If it's cold, it can't be milder.

It can be wet, then dry.
It can be cold, then it less cold, or even mild.
If it's dry, it can be dryer.
If it's mild, it can be milder.
Is -273 °C colder than 1,000 °C?

Thanks

Jonathan

PS: The answer, of course is that the comparative form is used in two different ways: the same property but more or less of it, and for position along a scale. regardless of the initial position. Both are standard English usage. The topic is known as gradability of adjectives.
Indeed.

Only MIckF would find this difficult to understand. To almost the entire Anglosphere, a sentence like:
"It's warmer than yesterday." is impossible to misunderstand. Likewise
"...,milder ..." or
"... drier ..."
Yet somehow MickF can write a pile of drivel about it ...
User avatar
Cowsham
Posts: 4951
Joined: 4 Nov 2019, 1:33pm

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Cowsham »

Reading articles that may or may not have been the output of speech to text software.

I say may or may not because you're never quite sure in some cases.

Take this example for instance

Some experts are therefore cautiously optimistic that – if Omicron turns out to be less lethal but more contagious and dominant than the Delta variant – the new mutation may actually be a blessing in the sky.

Taken from this article
https://www.cityam.com/coronavirus-bles ... a-variant/
I am here. Where are you?
thirdcrank
Posts: 36764
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by thirdcrank »

....Take this example for instance ....
Do you have a view on tautology?
Post Reply