English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

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Audax67
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Audax67 »

In Norn Iron we say amn't I? where the English say aren't I? It irritates me intensely when someone "corrects" me because amn't I?, being a legitimate contraction of am not I? is actually better grammar than are not I?, which won't be correct this side of I are making it into Fowler's good graces.
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Mike Sales
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mike Sales »

mattheus wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 10:35am Bur-gul-ry vs bur-gla-ry.

I think!
Ta.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mike Sales »

My grandmother had difficulty with pronouncing the name of the village of Saracen's Head.
Somehow it came out "Sakaren's Head."
How many people have to make the same mistake as Granny before this becomes the correct pronunciation?
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
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Mick F
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mick F »

Exactly.

Say it enough, and it's "normal" and then accepted.

It doesn't make it right though ............... for pedants like wot I iz.
Mick F. Cornwall
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Mick F wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 6:13pm Exactly.

Say it enough, and it's "normal" and then accepted.

It doesn't make it right though ............... for pedants like wot I iz.
So what does make any usage or pronunciation "right"?

Thanks

Jonathan
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Mike Sales wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 5:51pm
mattheus wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 10:35am Bur-gul-ry vs bur-gla-ry.

I think!
Ta.
I've never heard anyone say bur-gla-ree with either a flat (cat) or broad (cart) a. RP is bur-gluh-ree, with the middle vowel sound being a schwa.

Jonathan
Mike Sales
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mike Sales »

Jdsk wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 6:24pm
Mike Sales wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 5:51pm
mattheus wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 10:35am Bur-gul-ry vs bur-gla-ry.

I think!
Ta.
I've never heard anyone say bur-gla-ree with either a flat (cat) or broad (cart) a. RP is bur-gluh-ree, with the middle vowel sound being a schwa.

Jonathan
The exact sound probably depends on the speaker's accent, but I think Mattheus made the point quite adequately. Like me, Mattheus may have missed the lesson about "schwa".
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
Jdsk
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

Mike Sales wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 6:30pmLike me, Mattheus may have missed the lesson about "schwa".
Most common vowel sound in English:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa

But I now understand that the criticism was of separated consonants. That probably happens because it's mechanically easier than keeping them together in -gluh-.

Jonathan
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Bmblbzzz »

And some might take the root of the noun burglary to be the verb burgle rather than the noun burglar.
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Mike Sales »

To me it seems that "burglary" flows off the tongue more easily than "burglery".
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Do you mean - /ləri:/ flows off the tongue more easily than - /əlri:/ ? Or the other way round?
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Audax67
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Audax67 »

Who put the schwa in Schwäbish?
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Bmblbzzz »

Audax67 wrote: 11 Nov 2021, 9:10am Who put the schwa in Schwäbish?
:D
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by mattheus »

Mike Sales wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 6:30pm
Jdsk wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 6:24pm
Mike Sales wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 5:51pm
Ta.
I've never heard anyone say bur-gla-ree with either a flat (cat) or broad (cart) a. RP is bur-gluh-ree, with the middle vowel sound being a schwa.

Jonathan
The exact sound probably depends on the speaker's accent, but I think Mattheus made the point quite adequately. Like me, Mattheus may have missed the lesson about "schwa".
I can probably spell it now - but I've no idea how to pronounce it. Sorry Jonathan, your pedagogy is wasted on some of us!
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Re: English Language - what "Does your head in" ??

Post by Jdsk »

mattheus wrote: 11 Nov 2021, 11:47am
Mike Sales wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 6:30pm
Jdsk wrote: 10 Nov 2021, 6:24pm I've never heard anyone say bur-gla-ree with either a flat (cat) or broad (cart) a. RP is bur-gluh-ree, with the middle vowel sound being a schwa.
The exact sound probably depends on the speaker's accent, but I think Mattheus made the point quite adequately. Like me, Mattheus may have missed the lesson about "schwa".
I can probably spell it now - but I've no idea how to pronounce it.
There's an audio clip in the linked Wikipedia article.

(It's really common for people to recognise it when it's pointed out, often accompanied by "I never knew what that was called".)

Jonathan
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