It's not rocket science

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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby Vorpal » 18 Jul 2016, 11:27pm

kwackers wrote:It's this reference frame that Manc simply doesn't seem to get.

Wasn't that obvious about 60 pages ago? Or maybe he just doesn't believe in such things...
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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby reohn2 » 18 Jul 2016, 11:40pm

67 is a goodly number not to believe in things,that is if numbers aren't abstract enough!
Otherwise carry one into the void of unknowing flatness and density of non gravitas..........






...........or not?
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53x13
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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby 53x13 » 19 Jul 2016, 7:56am

Yeah I think 67 pages is a good place to pack it in. Though it was obvious 60 pages ago to anyone with half a brain.

The Hitchhikers Guide to galaxy said the same about 67, and 42. Always a good place to stop, and move on to something new. This record isn't just broken, it's crumbled into dust :lol:

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby [XAP]Bob » 19 Jul 2016, 8:00am

Still waiting for Manc to decide whether the hammer is accelerating or the surface of the globe earth isn't....
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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby Manc33 » 19 Jul 2016, 8:01am

The man swinging the hammer won't feel any speed changes, he is the equivalent of the sun and stationary (apart from the 50 MPH movement of the train which in the heliocentric example, this guy would be the sun at what I previously said, 0 MPH).

The guy on the train feels no speed changes, the hammer does.

How can the man stand on the surface of the hammer? He can't but thats where the observation is taking place or needs to be because thats representing the surface of Earth (as a spinning ball).

The hammer itself is what goes at 50/40/50/60 MPH as it goes North, West, South then East. The man goes at a constant 50 MPH.

The flat Earthers reckon they have a map sorted out by the way, it was only a matter of time, keep an eye out on Globebusters. :wink:

The guy on Globebusters (called Bob) I am sure said he has a physics degree, he is also a pilot. He sounds like Bob's (from here) arch nemesis since the Globebusters Bob is 100% a flat Earther. :lol:

Resolve that one if you can. How do you explain away people with degrees looking into this stuff? They have realised one simple fact - we aren't getting enough proof most of the time for a lot of what we believe.

One giveaway is how you can ask 50 scientists the same question and get 50 different answers, when it comes to things like astrophysics.

Something like how fast does the Earth ultimately travel through the universe?

No one actually knows, they say 1,300,000 MPH but this varies wildly - because they don't know and won't simply admit that they don't know, a mental disease if you will and certainly not science, that is the opposite of science, guessing, rubber stamping stuff that cannot be proven in a month of Sundays, but gets claimed and written into books regardless, without contest. Guesswork and extrapolations from assumptions passes for facts. Theories are even called facts in science, using their own special dictionary (like lawyers) to fudge it. That is "something" I will agree, but not science. More like scientism, a cult. Well OK 99% of science isn't like that, only a ***** could be so stupid to bash ALL of science... no its just the other 1%, the unproven stuff.
Last edited by Manc33 on 19 Jul 2016, 8:18am, edited 2 times in total.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby [XAP]Bob » 19 Jul 2016, 8:10am

No, the hammer goes at 50moh (for the sake of a number) due west , and half a second later is going 50mph due east.

What direction does it accelerate in?


Ps - the hammer thrower is also spinning, just round a smaller circle, centred on the centre of mass of the athlete/hammer combination.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby Manc33 » 19 Jul 2016, 8:19am

What direction it accelerates in doesn't change any of the speeds.
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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby [XAP]Bob » 19 Jul 2016, 8:21am

Manc33 wrote:What direction it accelerates in doesn't change any of the speeds.

It is a vitally important question - please answer it.

I don't care about the train at the moment, I'm talking about a stationary, practising, hammer thrower.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby 53x13 » 19 Jul 2016, 8:25am

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Manc33 wrote:What direction it accelerates in doesn't change any of the speeds.

It is a vitally important question - please answer it.

I don't care about the train at the moment, I'm talking about a stationary, practising, hammer thrower.


Not going to happen. Obfuscation, obfuscation, obfuscation.. 67 pages of it..

I'm beginning to think Manc 33 and XAPBob are one and the same :roll:

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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby [XAP]Bob » 19 Jul 2016, 8:41am

53x13 wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:
Manc33 wrote:What direction it accelerates in doesn't change any of the speeds.

It is a vitally important question - please answer it.

I don't care about the train at the moment, I'm talking about a stationary, practising, hammer thrower.


Not going to happen. Obfuscation, obfuscation, obfuscation.. 67 pages of it..

I'm beginning to think Manc 33 and XAPBob are one and the same :roll:

Hey - I'm insulted.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby kwackers » 19 Jul 2016, 8:48am

Manc33 wrote:Something like how fast does the Earth ultimately travel through the universe?

No one actually knows, they say 1,300,000 MPH but this varies wildly - because they don't know and won't simply admit that they don't know, a mental disease if you will and certainly not science, that is the opposite of science

See, that's why you don't get it.

Scientists measure velocity with respect to another object. There's no such thing as absolute velocity, never has been and never will be.
You can only measure your speed with regards something else and there's no way you can tell if it's you or it that's moving.

In the hammer/train example it doesn't matter if the train is doing 100mph or is stationary and the earth rotates 100mph beneath it. You can't tell, there's nothing you can do on that train that will allow you to figure out which is true.

You claim the hammer speeds up and slows down, this requires acceleration which requires force - where does that force come from?
At the right speeds the hammer would be going backwards, yet attaching a paper streamer shows the streamer always trails behind the hammer, but if the hammer is going backwards why doesn't it switch to going in front?

It always comes back to frames of reference, only by standing outside and watching the train go past will the hammer appear to vary speed compared to you. If you were sat on the hammer facing in the direction of movement you always go forward and at a constant speed, the only force you'll be able to feel is centripetal and that's constant.

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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby [XAP]Bob » 19 Jul 2016, 12:29pm

Lol - just noticed that that was the 1000th reply...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby Mick F » 19 Jul 2016, 2:19pm

I wonder if Manc33 listened to Radio4 today just after the 12noon news???
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07kpy3x
All about conspiracy theories and why people have them.

Worth a listen.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby Postboxer » 19 Jul 2016, 4:46pm

Mick F wrote:I wonder if Manc33 listened to Radio4 today just after the 12noon news???
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07kpy3x
All about conspiracy theories and why people have them.

Worth a listen.



Two episodes back is an episode on cycling too, haven't listened to it but I might.

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Re: It's not rocket science

Postby Manc33 » 19 Jul 2016, 8:15pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
53x13 wrote:I'm beginning to think Manc 33 and XAPBob are one and the same :roll:

Hey - I'm insulted.


Me too. :P I'm actually not, but it is a funny concept.

[XAP]Bob wrote:I don't care about the train at the moment, I'm talking about a stationary, practising, hammer thrower.


He is stationary in that he is on an axis but rotating around?

A centrifugal force is pushing the hammer outwards. Nothing is accelerating if he is moving at a constant speed. Thing is he is fixed on a point, he himself isn't being made to orbit anything.

As for "accelerating" nothing is, when he lets go of the hammer, it decelerates. The only acceleration is when he starts from a stopped start and swings it initially.

None of this stops Earth's mechanics being identical to a waltzer and it doesn't stop waltzers having speed changes at the rim of the chair just as Earth would at its surface.

Only one part (one atom, even!) of the spinning orbiting ball actually moves at 66,600 MPH all the time and that is the exact center of the sphere. Everywhere else, especially the surface and especially the equator, you're going to have speed changes, or velocity changes, whichever word is the right word this week.

What do you think makes a waltzer need electricity to run and costs money to ride it as opposed to a roundabout? People seem to think they are mechanically the same thing for some reason.
When two cyclists get married, they should throw anodized cable crimps instead of confetti.