Dismantled 10-speed chain

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OldLimey
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby OldLimey » 19 Oct 2020, 2:21pm

squeaker wrote:
OldLimey wrote:One of the parts I couldn't save was the tiny O rings. They were like wire not much thicker than a human hair, and they built up around the chain tool pin, making it very hard to get them off. I used a sharp knife and pointed pliers to remove them.
O-rings? I am so out of touch :(
I knew motorcycle chains used them, but bikes? Was the original a KMC chain? Any idea which one?


I had heard that chains have O rings in them, but as I dismantled this chain, I wondered where the O rings were. Then I saw a couple of pieces by the parts on the blue cloth. If you look carefully, you can see them on the left in the original post. I wasn't sure at the time if they were bits of O ring, but once I was done I knew that's what they were. The chain tool I used to push the pins out, had most of them bunched up against the threaded part of the tool. I wasn't even sure it wasn't a part of the tool. I scraped at them with a Stanley knife and it was like scraping a threaded bolt. As tiny pieces began to break away I put my pointed pliers to them and twisted them off. I was surprised how hard they were.

Each end of each pin I punched out, had a very tiny ridge, and it seems the O rings must have been under them. They were definitely on the outside of the outer plates because they all ended up on the part of the tool that punched them out. I took a macro shot of one of the outer plates; notice there is a recess where the O rings probably sat, and held in by the pin. Click on the picture to enlarge it.

Yes, it was a KMC chain. Each of the outer plates has the name stamped into it but no other markings.

link.png
If I knew how to ride a bike, properly, I'd do it every time

OldLimey
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby OldLimey » 19 Oct 2020, 2:33pm

backnotes wrote:I've been using a similar approach to clean my chains for years, having first learned about it on a highly reputable cycling website:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html


I got a laugh out of that! :D It's a joke, though. Right? Tell me it's a joke! :lol:
If I knew how to ride a bike, properly, I'd do it every time

OldLimey
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby OldLimey » 19 Oct 2020, 2:37pm

drossall wrote:
OldLimey wrote:Sometimes production machinery malfunctions. He may have had an improperly assembled chain. I don't think that I'd save the pieces if that happened to me because I wouldn't trust the parts that I picked up.


You might if it was your only way to get home...


Walking is another way to get home, while wheeling the bike. Otherwise, you'd need to carry a chain tool, new pins and pliers to put it back together, on the road. Or carry a new chain. :D
If I knew how to ride a bike, properly, I'd do it every time

OldLimey
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby OldLimey » 19 Oct 2020, 2:40pm

Mick F wrote:
OldLimey wrote:
Mick F wrote:There are 108pins.
Painting program and I put a black dot on each of them as I counted.Screen Shot 2020-10-18 at 09.07.17.png


You're as nutty as me! :D

My wife found a pin on the floor, last night. And incidentally, I erred in saying how many links the chain had. The new chain is listed as having 116 links. I had to remove four. So it's a total of 112 links plus the master link. Does that jibe with the number of pins you counted?
I was bored sort of post-breakfast with nothing else to do but count pins on a Sunday morning.
108 + one found + one master link = 111

I reckon you need to do all this again. :lol:


I've still got the parts. I'll put it back together and then dismantle it more carefully, just for you. :D
If I knew how to ride a bike, properly, I'd do it every time

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Mick F
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby Mick F » 19 Oct 2020, 3:20pm

:lol: :lol:

Yes please, and with a YouTube movie so we can watch.
Mick F. Cornwall

OldLimey
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby OldLimey » 19 Oct 2020, 3:35pm

Mick F wrote::lol: :lol:

Yes please, and with a YouTube movie so we can watch.


I still have the parts in a bag and was going to keep them for their sentimental value, but I'd be willing to ship them to you for reassembly and a video, Mick! :lol:
If I knew how to ride a bike, properly, I'd do it every time

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby Cyril Haearn » 19 Oct 2020, 3:38pm

Please to post some pictures of the o-rings
Are they just washers? How small are they exactly?
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OldLimey
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby OldLimey » 19 Oct 2020, 5:02pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Please to post some pictures of the o-rings
Are they just washers? How small are they exactly?


I have no photos of the O rings because as I pushed the pins out, the O rings shot back and packed hard on the chain tool. I had to dig them off with a sharp knife and pointed pliers; they came off in pieces.

Look at the original post, where you see all the disassembled parts. On the left side near the pins you will see two tiny pieces of the O rings. The appear to be hard steel, judging by the effort it took to get them off the chain tool. They didn't come off in one piece so I could save any. They are not washers, just extremely thin wire rings, not much thicker than a dog's hair. They measure 4mm O.D. I posted a photo of an outer plate. You can see a tiny recess where the rings would have sat, under the ridge on the end of the pin.

Here's a photo of the new chain on the bike. You can see how the end of pin is swaged over, and the O ring would sit under the swage. I'm not sure if it's shadow or the O ring.

link 2.png
If I knew how to ride a bike, properly, I'd do it every time

drossall
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby drossall » 19 Oct 2020, 5:35pm

OldLimey wrote:
backnotes wrote:I've been using a similar approach to clean my chains for years, having first learned about it on a highly reputable cycling website:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html


I got a laugh out of that! :D It's a joke, though. Right? Tell me it's a joke! :lol:

Scroll to the bottom. Publication date and comment attached thereto.

drossall
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby drossall » 19 Oct 2020, 5:35pm

OldLimey wrote:Walking is another way to get home, while wheeling the bike. Otherwise, you'd need to carry a chain tool, new pins and pliers to put it back together, on the road. Or carry a new chain. :D

Why wouldn't you have a chain tool, at least back in the day? And re-use pins?

OldLimey
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby OldLimey » 19 Oct 2020, 7:00pm

drossall wrote:
OldLimey wrote:Walking is another way to get home, while wheeling the bike. Otherwise, you'd need to carry a chain tool, new pins and pliers to put it back together, on the road. Or carry a new chain. :D

Why wouldn't you have a chain tool, at least back in the day? And re-use pins?


Aaaagghh!!! The forum keeps signing me out. I had written a long text and as I submitted it, I had to sign in, yet again, and when I did, my whole text was lost!

I don't know about chain repairs in the past. I rode a lot of miles as a teenager and never had any chain problems, and that was sixty years ago!

You said your friend's chain "exploded" and that he was "scrabbling round in the road trying to collect enough bits to build something to get home." I never heard of that but don't doubt it could happen. Sounds like an inferior chain, though, or perhaps the machine that assembled it was having a bad day.

Reuse the pins? That would call for some precision work so they don't come out again. Would you trust a chain that broke in several pieces and put back together? It might be a feasible project if you're a long way from home and had no other choice than walking. I'd put a new chain on it once I got home.

I keep replacement pins in my tool kit but I've wondered how good they are. What holds them in place apart from being tight? When a LBS made a longer chain for my cruiser, several years ago, they added a piece on and it broke after a few weeks. I guess they pushed the pin in too far, but I expect better than that from a professional bike mechanic.

I doubt that today's chains would "explode" and probably unlikely to even break in one place unless there was a defective pin. When I dismantled the old chain I noticed that both ends of each pin was swaged. Something serious would have to happen to break a chain with swaged pins. When I punched the pins out, they went with quite a snap, and that caused the O rings to break, then shoot back up the shaft of the chain tool, and jam together, forming a cone shape. That's what made it so hard to get them off the tool.
If I knew how to ride a bike, properly, I'd do it every time

drossall
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby drossall » 19 Oct 2020, 7:14pm

OldLimey wrote:You said your friend's chain "exploded" and that he was "scrabbling round in the road trying to collect enough bits to build something to get home." I never heard of that but don't doubt it could happen. Sounds like an inferior chain, though, or perhaps the machine that assembled it was having a bad day.

Probably a cheap chain. We were impoverished teenagers. But probably also the story has been embellished :D
Would you trust a chain that broke in several pieces and put back together? It might be a feasible project if you're a long way from home and had no other choice than walking. I'd put a new chain on it once I got home.

Oh so would I, and probably so would my friend. But only after getting home :lol:

OldLimey
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Re: Dismantled 10-speed chain

Postby OldLimey » 19 Oct 2020, 8:20pm

There are two or three videos on YouTube, about chain-making machines. It's fascinating! There's a lot of work goes into designing and building the machines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8j5-dC6_x8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyQtPM73dMk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBFVPi4RQ5M
If I knew how to ride a bike, properly, I'd do it every time