Bournemouth to New Forest

QueenClaudia
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Joined: 30 May 2018, 8:29am

Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby QueenClaudia » 30 May 2018, 8:38am

Hi new member here.

Does anyone know of a route from Bournemouth to the New Forest? Any links to maps that give detailed directions would be great as the one's we have looked at so far aren't very clear.

We wouldn't want to be going on any A roads etc and would prefer an off road route but we can walk busy bit and pieces when required.

Many thanks :)

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squeaker
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Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby squeaker » 30 May 2018, 10:55am

"42"

Roy A
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Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby Roy A » 30 May 2018, 12:18pm

Depending on timing (summer restrictions) you could cycle along the seafront from Bournemouth towards Hengistbury Head using Sustrans route 2 and continue on this route into the New Forest towards Brockenhurst. Sustrans website has this route under New Forest Ride: https://www.sustrans.org.uk/ncn/map/rou ... orest-ride?

Alternatively from Hengistbury Head continue to the Mudeford Ferry, which takes bikes. heading into the New Forest would entail some busy roads around Highcliffe where there is a good café in the Castle gardens. I usually take a tea/cake break here on my annual ride from Brockenhurst to Purbeck (I use the train to get there).

Roy

slowster
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Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby slowster » 30 May 2018, 12:23pm

QueenClaudia wrote:Does anyone know of a route from Bournemouth to the New Forest?

'Bournemouth to the New Forest' is a bit too vague, and it might help if you stated your approximate start point and destination. There are only a few options to get across the River Avon, and that will heavily influence the first part of your route.

squeaker wrote:try cycle.travel ;)

I think http://www.cyclestreets.net is possibly better, since the last time I checked it can include at least some of the New Forest tracks in its suggested routes. However, I don't think either are particularly good, and certainly not a substitute for just looking a map.

Norman H
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Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby Norman H » 30 May 2018, 1:01pm

I did the route in reverse a couple of years ago when I spent a week in the New Forest. We had a day ride out via Swanage and Corfe using the sandbanks ferry. The route from the YH at Burley was on reasonably quiet roads to the outskirts of Christchurch where we crossed the busy A35 using a foot bridge. From there we meandered through Chistchurch to cross the Avon and then the Stour and picked up the seafront path (route 2) all the way to Sandbanks.

We noticed that the roads to the north of the forest, particularly north of the A31, were much quieter than those closer to the coast.

QueenClaudia
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Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby QueenClaudia » 30 May 2018, 1:47pm

Thank you that's all really interesting.

We tried last weekend to get from Bournemouth (we cycled along the Prom) to Ashurst via Christchurch but got very lost so never made it out of Christchurch to the New Forest.

We did study maps and printed off a route but when it came to trying to follow our route it proved very difficult! Our mobile phones decided to give up on us as well so it was a very frustrating day.

We are a bit annoyed at ourselves and want to try it again but I've googled Bournemouth to Ashurst and the maps that come up are not very clear and we are very inexperienced map readers which doesn't help.

slowster
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Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby slowster » 30 May 2018, 2:57pm

QueenClaudia wrote:We tried last weekend to get from Bournemouth (we cycled along the Prom) to Ashurst via Christchurch but got very lost so never made it out of Christchurch to the New Forest.

We did study maps and printed off a route but when it came to trying to follow our route it proved very difficult! Our mobile phones decided to give up on us as well so it was a very frustrating day.

We are a bit annoyed at ourselves and want to try it again but I've googled Bournemouth to Ashurst and the maps that come up are not very clear and we are very inexperienced map readers which doesn't help.

There are limited options for getting to Ashurst, and they will heavily dictate your route. I've quickly tried creating a couple of routes using Google Maps (I stress VERY quickly, so there might be some inaccuracies: you need to get a map and check the routes yourself).

The first one uses the cyclepath alongside the A35 from Lyndhurst to Ashurst, and includes the gravel track from Burley to the northern end of the Bolderwood Ornamental Drive (and from there you could alternatively use the gravel tracks to get to Lyndhurst as well instead of the road route I've used).

The second would be my preferred route, but involves more careful navigation (you either need the 1:25,000 OS map or a GPS, or both - forget the official New Forest Cycle Map: the latest version is appallingly bad and difficult to interpret - the official cycle tracks are marked on the 1:25,000 map, which is much clearer). It includes a bit of slightly intricate navigation on tracks between Holmsley Campsite and Wootton Bridge car park, in order to then get onto the Castleman Trailway (former railway line) to Brockenhurst. Then another track takes you to Denny Wood Campsite. From Matley Wood Campsite there is a mile or so of non gravel path on which cycling is not allowed (but where a lot of people do ride and the Forestry Commission must know of it because most of the cyclists are probably the users of the campsite which the FC runs - if the path is dry you should not do any environmental damage by riding it, and it's wide enough to give any walkers a wide berth. In any case, by that point you would probably appreciate a short walk anyway, especially across the open sandy bits after you exit Matley Wood). The official gravel tracks start again once you cross a bridge over the railway, and a track which exits through the Ashurst Campsite takes you to Ashurst (Google won't let me plot a route through the campsite, but you can see where I have created a spur off the route: you just need to take that spur over another railway bridge and then turn right to get to the campsite).

NB I've edited this post a few times to tweak both routes, because the first links posted contained some errors in the routes (and even now they still need to be checked against a map as per my comment above).

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Ashurst,+Southampton/''/@50.8719935,-1.6007235,13z/data=!4m32!4m31!1m25!1m1!1s0x487389b68df4aa99:0x913407a528c90892!2m2!1d-1.5222896!2d50.8926102!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5812485!2d50.8789269!3s0x4873892a3673572f:0x170cd04f782ec6ca!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6518688!2d50.8737061!3s0x48738fb239260c05:0x37219caa9079df9!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6664361!2d50.8572859!3s0x48738fc327e79d5d:0x9c464b0fed122f1c!3m4!1m2!1d-1.7301422!2d50.7833106!3s0x48739baee26a3dc5:0x429eb134c835aeaf!1m3!2m2!1d-1.7796671!2d50.7357116!3e1

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/50.7364202,-1.7803022/50.8917272,-1.5238009/@50.8872972,-1.5273562,15z/data=!4m64!4m63!1m60!3m4!1m2!1d-1.7662368!2d50.7482976!3s0x48739c001bbea095:0xd1cb72ff7d937a56!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6808468!2d50.8001991!3s0x48739ad3b502284d:0x4e7c3c2f0831ee0d!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6755459!2d50.7978666!3s0x4873852caf08ace7:0x6933265be624b239!3m4!1m2!1d-1.6611252!2d50.7959208!3s0x48738520b909f03d:0x49fe7cac03eb097e!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5631116!2d50.8282463!3s0x487386197cf5ee91:0x233ef0a89279241b!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5422366!2d50.8394529!3s0x487388810e9c51ff:0x52cdaf35610cffbe!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5301604!2d50.864716!3s0x4873885bdad80fef:0xfc7654534e317d5c!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5151781!2d50.8771464!3s0x4873883567c30d05:0xb4e6f04568a68f9d!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5197365!2d50.8824137!3s0x487389b454656259:0xd74791c09b3ddef4!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5205813!2d50.8848497!3s0x487389b6d47b551d:0x5e60e0917e44af8!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5223983!2d50.8838431!3s0x487389b169f61c67:0xd12846f6a7f75297!3m4!1m2!1d-1.5211917!2d50.8862214!3s0x487389b6d47b551d:0x5e60e0917e44af8!1m0!3e1
Last edited by slowster on 30 May 2018, 5:25pm, edited 1 time in total.

QueenClaudia
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Joined: 30 May 2018, 8:29am

Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby QueenClaudia » 30 May 2018, 4:41pm

Slowster - thank you so much I am sure that will be a great help to us.

I will show my husband when he gets in from work.

slowster
Posts: 295
Joined: 7 Jul 2017, 10:37am

Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby slowster » 30 May 2018, 5:12pm

QueenClaudia wrote:Slowster - thank you so much I am sure that will be a great help to us.


You are welcome. If you have not already done so, I suggest you buy the OS 1:25,000 Explorer map of the New Forest (it's better than the 1:50,000 scale of the OS Landranger maps for navigating the off road tracks in the New Forest).

As for your comment "we are very inexperienced map readers" - you learn by doing. Take the map with you and keep referring to it as you go along. The trick to not getting lost, is knowing where you are on the map at all times. That sounds fatuous, but if you only refer to your map when you don't know where you are, it's too late.

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 30 May 2018, 11:02pm

slowster wrote:
QueenClaudia wrote:Does anyone know of a route from Bournemouth to the New Forest?

'Bournemouth to the New Forest' is a bit too vague, and it might help if you stated your approximate start point and destination. There are only a few options to get across the River Avon, and that will heavily influence the first part of your route.

squeaker wrote:try cycle.travel ;)

I think http://www.cyclestreets.net is possibly better, since the last time I checked it can include at least some of the New Forest tracks in its suggested routes. However, I don't think either are particularly good, and certainly not a substitute for just looking a map.


Could you give an example of where cycle.travel isn't finding a route it should do, so I can investigate?
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slowster
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Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby slowster » 31 May 2018, 12:11am

Richard Fairhurst wrote:Could you give an example of where cycle.travel isn't finding a route it should do, so I can investigate?

The OP specifically requested an off road route, so that was a priority. Compared with the routes I have suggested, cycle.travel does not suggest any of the off road tracks, and instead includes a couple of miles of the A35 just before Lyndhurst (an unpleasant road to cycle on even for a short distance - unless you do not mind being closely overtaken by cars travelling at 60mph and more - and a road which I would take a long detour to avoid).

I presume cycle.travel selected that route because it is shorter than either of my suggestions (and admittedly part of one of my routes is not supposed to be used by cyclists, although it would be possible to find a detour for that latter section, e.g. off road track from Brockenhurst to Lyndhurst and thereafter the cycle path along the A35 to Ashurst).

Another example would be Romsey to Stockbridge. The suggested cycle.travel route sticks to the road, but Google Maps suggests NCN246, a former railway line (which is marked on the cycle.travel map, but not suggested for the route). If I were on a road bike with 23c tyres, I would take the cycle.travel route, but on an MTB or a touring bike, e.g. with 32c tyres, I would use NCN246.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Romsey/51.1141718,-1.4923747/@51.0574144,-1.5230298,12z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!1m1!1s0x48738a467a935321:0x921d2f3be7c06e5f!2m2!1d-1.49658!2d50.98893!1m0!3e1

http://cycle.travel/map?from=Romsey&to=Stockbridge&fromLL=50.9891396,-1.4999044&toLL=51.1140924,-1.4925137

esuhl
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Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby esuhl » 31 May 2018, 1:33am

Richard Fairhurst wrote:Could you give an example of where cycle.travel isn't finding a route it should do, so I can investigate?


Are you involved in cycle.travel personally? I hadn't heard of cycle.travel, so I compared it to CycleStreets for a route I know well, ending in the approach to Woking.

CycleStreets

CycleStreets gives three route suggestions - fastest, quietest, or balanced (a compromise between fast and quiet). The fastest route is probably fastest, but you'd have to be a very fast, confident road-cyclist to take on some of the dual-carriageways. The quietest route is definitely quiet and would require a mountain bike or decent hybrid. It's not exactly the route I would take, but it's fairly close. The balanced route is (to my surprise), exactly the route that I take. It mostly involves 30mph roads, avoiding fast/hostile traffic, but preferring directness over the scenic route and meandering cycle paths.

Cycle.travel

Cycle.travel gives one suggestion, which was very close to the balanced route suggested by CycleStreets... with one small difference in the last mile or so. Instead of taking the most direct approach involving safe 30mph residential roads, Cycle.travel suggests a small detour to take in a 2ft-wide cycle path on the pavement.

But this cycle path only exists for 1/3rd of the detour and is on a wide road that most cyclists would consider safe (although not as safe as the more direct route). And the last quarter involves riding on a multi-lane dual carriageway!

If it helps, here's a little map. The route I take (and the one suggested by CycleStreets) is indicated in BLACK. The pavement cycle lane is marked in GREEN. The more dangerous parts of the detour (compared to the black route) are in ORANGE. And the dangerous multi-lane part is marked in RED.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ea5agmfwfdyt ... d.png?dl=0

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 31 May 2018, 9:37am

Thanks! Yes, cycle.travel's my site. I'm a bit puzzled by your Woking example though - cycle.travel isn't suggesting riding on the dual carriageway at all, it's suggesting crossing at a signalised crossing, then following the Basingstoke Canal towpath. That's the same route that CycleStreets' balanced option suggests, too. Am I missing something?

Funny that you mention NCN 246 - I rode that the other year as part of a Didcot-Lymington ride (on a Croix de Fer, 35mm tyres) and to be honest I found it a bit of a trudge; I remember noting at the time I should have stuck to the National Byway route on the other side of the valley! But each to their own. In this case, I think the reason cycle.travel is avoiding it is that someone has tagged much of it in OpenStreetMap as tracktype=grade3, which usually indicates a rougher track, and seems to be slightly pessimistic in this case. cycle.travel is deliberately cautious about rough surfaces - it's too easy to spoil a ride by ending up on an impassable muddy bridleway.

I note your suggested routes in Google Maps have a bunch of via points to drag it away from its original suggestions - worth noting that you can do that in cycle.travel too.

Incidentally, it's interesting to see the New Forest routes have Dutch-style waypoints (knooppunten), which show up on the route instructions - is that the only place in Britain to have them?
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slowster
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Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby slowster » 31 May 2018, 11:27am

Richard Fairhurst wrote:Funny that you mention NCN 246 - I rode that the other year as part of a Didcot-Lymington ride (on a Croix de Fer, 35mm tyres) and to be honest I found it a bit of a trudge; I remember noting at the time I should have stuck to the National Byway route on the other side of the valley! But each to their own. In this case, I think the reason cycle.travel is avoiding it is that someone has tagged much of it in OpenStreetMap as tracktype=grade3, which usually indicates a rougher track, and seems to be slightly pessimistic in this case. cycle.travel is deliberately cautious about rough surfaces - it's too easy to spoil a ride by ending up on an impassable muddy bridleway.

As you say, each to their own, and that means that what some cyclists would prefer, others would prefer to avoid. The question then is whether cycle.travel wants to cater to different types of rider, and how to do that. If it's primarily aimed at riders seeking a relatively short and quick route between two points, then I suspect it fulfils that requirement.

However, as the OP indicates, there are probably a lot of leisure/pleasure cyclists - or just 'ordinary people' who do not necessarily consider themselves cyclists and just happen to ride a bike - who will have different priorities and preferences, e.g. cycle paths or low/slow motor traffic levels, scenery/countryside, and possibly minimal hills if they are unfit or not in great health etc., and who are inexperienced/less skilled at reading maps and identifying suitable routes for themselves.

If you want to cater for those different user preferences, then I guess you need to enable users to input their preferences and for those to influence the website's route choice. I can understand that the inclusion of off road routes is going to be problematic: a track which some riders would greatly enjoy, others would hate. Moreover, a track which is great in summer might be awful in winter. I suppose the long term solution might be some kind of mapping frequently updated by local riders, i.e. the equivalent of information being shared on a cycling forum about whether the Ridgeway is rideable at any given time.

Richard Fairhurst wrote:I note your suggested routes in Google Maps have a bunch of via points to drag it away from its original suggestions - worth noting that you can do that in cycle.travel too.

I did not realise that, and I see it's something http://www.cyclestreets.net does not do. It did not occur to me to try to change the cycle.travel route because, being cycling specific, I assumed it would offer (or consider itself to offer) the best route, which would not need altering.

Incidentally, I've just checked the results on cycle.travel for an off road ride which I do regularly. Initially cycle.travel suggested a route using just roads, but when I dragged it to the off road tracks, it found the exact route I use. That surprised and impressed me, because my route uses a section of off road on which cycling is not allowed, rather than use a short section of bridleway which I avoid because it resembles Passchendaele. I presume that the bridleway must have a negative grade in OpenStreetMap.

Richard Fairhurst wrote:Incidentally, it's interesting to see the New Forest routes have Dutch-style waypoints (knooppunten), which show up on the route instructions - is that the only place in Britain to have them?

I've no idea. Many of the junction marker posts on the cycle tracks in the New Forest are numbered and have the numbers on them, and the latest version of the New Forest Cycle Map shows those numbers. That is probably because in some places there are large numbers of junctions, especially in wooded areas where the tracks and junctions can be very difficult to tell apart, and it can be easy for people to lose their way.

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: Bournemouth to New Forest

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 31 May 2018, 1:51pm

Essentially (I'm over-simplifying a bit), fast draggable routes and customisable routing parameters can't coexist. You can precompute the best routes between key destinations, which is what cycle.travel does (and Google, and most of the big commercial sites), but that "bakes in" the route preferences to the database. Or you can compute everything on the fly when the user asks for a route, which means you can offer adjustable weightings - but that means thousands of route permutations, so it's impractical to precompute stuff, so the routing is slower. (There's huge amounts of research on the topic if you're interested...)

I think there's room for both approaches. brouter.de is very good if you want something customisable.
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