Specialisation in children's bikes - from what age?

[Tangled Metal]

I was riding behind our 7 year old son on a canal towpath today and started thinking about his next bike. He's on a frog 52 that's too small for him and in fact he's at least tall enough for a frog 62 now. At frog 62 I think you can buy with a hybrid or more MTB style but at frog 67 you can get even more differentiation I believe. That got me thinking about touring bikes for children.

Does anyone know if there's any off the peg child touring bikes? Do Dawes, Jamis or spa cycles do touring bikes for kids? Or do kids have to wait until there but enough for the smallest spa cycles touring bike to fit them?

I'm probably not going to get one but just curious. Short of a lottery win we'll have to just buy the best bike for all the riding styles our son does that we can afford. Probably a frog 62 hybrid that we can fit knobblies on or slicks as appropriate. Mostly hybrid tyres but occasionally we go mountain biking at gisburn forest. Nothing too hard because I'm on a road / commuter / gravel type of bike anyway.

Just wondered if anyone has come across kids touring bikes. Our son has free cycled on three tours and been a passenger on another before his 7th birthday. Perhaps a lottery win would result in this query being for real!!!

[Jdsk]

Anything in the Islabikes range? A Luath?
https://www.islabikes.co.uk/bikes/

Jonathan

[Tangled Metal]

It's more a general query if the differentiation found in adults bikes is present beyond the top brands offering MTB, hybrid and drop barred road bike at about 8 or 9ish? There's more differentiation for adults bikes but with some of Isla bikes range costing as much as adults bikes with real quality designs/parts I'm visits whether there's differentiation. Differentiation can give performance advantages like the top end islabikes range can give.

There's obviously a market for indulging parents giving kids a bike above the quality of most adult cyclists ( I'm excluding those mamils who spend £6k on bikes, I don't see them as typical cyclists somehow). If there isn't differentiation then why not?

BTW Islabikes IMHO aren't that much better than frog bikes so I don't get them. Weight and spec wise I can't see how they're better than frog bikes other than idiots pay over the odds secondhand to get them. I buy new and TBH I've yet to sell a kids bike on. Last one we gave to charity. So there's no advantage to buying an islabikes for us. Besides our son actually prefers them for some reason. I think it's the bright colours!!

[slowster]

A couple of years ago I briefly rode with a father and son on a gravel track, and the son was on a Hoy drop barred bike. It struck me just how well the bike fitted the boy and how comfortable he looked on it. In essence it was a scaled down gravel bike, with narrow very shallow drop bars, microshift RH brifter and LH brake lever designed for small hands. Everything about the bike looked 'right' for the boy.

They are expensive, but less so than the Isla Bikes Luath, and I think the v brakes on the Hoy are a better choice than the discs on the Luath for a child's bike. The Luath looks like it has quite long chainstays, whereas the Hoy geometry looks more like that of a conventional adult's bike.

24" wheel - https://www.evanscycles.com/hoy-meadowmill-24-inch-wheel-2020-kids-bike-EV306436

26" wheel - https://www.evanscycles.com/hoy-meadowmill-26-inch-wheel-2020-kids-bike-EV306437

With regard to luggage, Isla bikes sell a small rear rack which I suspect might also fit the Hoy, but I think even front panniers used on it might be too large (and might unacceptably affect handling unless carrying very little in the way of weight, especially on the Luath with its long chainstays). A better solution might be a Carradice Bagman with quick release and a suitable saddlebag, e.g. the Audax model. Carrying capacity would obviously be much less than with panniers, but that's not necessarily a bad thing (learn to take less stuff and pack efficiently).

[pedals2slowly]

It's fairly simple - there is no market for 'differentiation'

There are very few families who have BMX, MTB, road, touring and track bikes, though a surprising number who do have two bikes per child. There are too few families who want a specific 'touring' bike for their children who aren't prepared to buy something that already exists.
Islabikes make so much sense BECAUSE the second hand market is so buoyant. I've never lost money on an Islabike and tended to have 3 sets of tyres for one bike and detach rack and mudguards for racing rather than try getting anything different, which would be expensive.

I instruct trainees in school for Bikeability and see a vast range of bicycles from the 20kg BMX bike to the odd Italian child's racing bike which must cost £1000+ IMHO you can't beat the Islabikes for quality. Hoy and Frog are definitely second tier then third tier Wiggins and various makes before you get to the cheap and nasty.

So no large market and you have to go custom build - why not if you win the lottery?

I don't think the children really mind, and may well feel the odd ball if they haven't got a bike like everyone else.

Incidentally these three rode over 100 miles in one day to get to one of the CTC family camps i used to organise, the youngest is just 7.