Taken the plunge.

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc. that are legal in the UK
MikeF
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Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by MikeF »

Thanks. Useful information for people like me who've never used one. I presume your tourer has a 135mm rear hub, and the chain line is fine with that, ie the chainwheel is approximately in line with the centre of the cassette.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
kwackers
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Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by kwackers »

MikeF wrote:Thanks. Useful information for people like me who've never used one. I presume your tourer has a 135mm rear hub, and the chain line is fine with that, ie the chainwheel is approximately in line with the centre of the cassette.

I think so - I'd need to check (9 spd Shimano).

The chainline is slightly towards the higher gears. This suits me because that's where I spend most of my time (top 4 or 5 gears).
If you were using the bike for touring then that might not be such a good place but then I'm not convinced an ebike is a good tourer.
(It may be possible to shim the motor to centralise it but that's just a random thought rather than a fact.)

Lekkie make a good range of chainrings with different sizes and different offsets, although obviously that adds to the cost.

My overall thoughts on the gearing is that the bottom end of the range isn't required (for my commute). Even into a serious headwind I don't need to drop too far down. I have thought that changing the cassette to road gearing may be a good thing.

If I had a choice I think I'd put straight bars on it (no need to get on the drops in headwinds) and fit hub gears.
kwackers
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Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by kwackers »

I found another use for the throttle; riding through floods.

So 2000km so far and still going well.

I've got to work in some horrific head winds (in the past I'd check the direction and strength of the wind on the weather in the morning and optionally choose the car).
Heavy head winds hammer the battery, even though I'm travelling slower in lower gears - it's been flashing empty on two occasions (usually it claims about half left).
I don't know how accurate the battery 'gauge' is (not very, I suspect) since stopping allows it to rise back up and I've never actually run out.
FWIW the battery 'max' distance is rated at 3x my commute.

In that 2000km I've pretty much used up a set of brake blocks. I'm now trying to ride more like I would normally, coasting to a stop etc. (I discovered I now tend to brake a lot more heavily since getting going isn't as much effort.)
I think discs are a definite benefit for an e-bike.
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horizon
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Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by horizon »

kwackers wrote:If you were using the bike for touring then that might not be such a good place but then I'm not convinced an ebike is a good tourer.



Would you lke to expand on that?
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
kwackers
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Location: Warrington

Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by kwackers »

horizon wrote:
kwackers wrote:If you were using the bike for touring then that might not be such a good place but then I'm not convinced an ebike is a good tourer.



Would you lke to expand on that?

Simply battery life.
Touring I'd expect to do 50-100 miles a day (on the days I'm moving) so I'd want a battery with 100 mile range. Range given is usually at minimum assist, in reality it appears to be about half that.
Throw in hills and wind and the rated mileage would need to be nearer 400 miles (perhaps 200 at a minimum).
Batteries with that sort of range don't exist yet, at least not in a stupidly heavy/bulky form.

Of course if you want to ride the bike without assist most of the time then it's a bit moot.
Although touring is imo different to commuting. Touring is a leisure activity so you tend to take as much time as you need which means unless you physically need an e-bike then you probably don't (if you see what I mean). I can physically ride my bike to work and back no problem, the e-bike reduces the effort to the point were I'm prepared to make it my main form of transport whereas I'd normally only use it now and again when I fancied the ride and a change. For touring there's no reason for me to use it.

Of course this is imo and if you're a tourer who does much smaller mileages and expects to have access to a charge point each day or has the willpower to only use the assist now and again then it might be an ideal.
John in Leeds
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Joined: 25 May 2010, 9:39pm

Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by John in Leeds »

After a year of reading up on ebike kits I've purchased a Tongsheng tsdz2 with the intention of fitting to my Pino tanden. Although I ride standard tandems regularly it is for fairly short distances without attempting the challenging hills. As my usual Pino tandem partner is neither particularly fir or strong I find that longer trips or those that go in hilly areas leave me pretty tired and sore. Hence the purchase. Initially I have fitted it to my old Claude Butler Dalesman of 1984 vintage. I was an easy fit and is a good match for the 7 speed cluster with its 34 tooth bottom gear. I have so far had just one charge of the 17 amp hour battery through it with some encouraging results. The total mileage according to my satnav is 55 with some serious climbs included. As I live in the Harrogate area there are plenty of hills to go at and one of the many dealt with was the Middle Tongue route up to Greenhow from Pateley Bridge. If it can climb that without problems it can climb anything. The system does not stop me working fairly hard but not to the usual level of sweaty exhaustion. Average speed is increased significantly though the speed limiter does tail off the power just under 16 mph, cycling beyond that is possible but there is a noticeable increase in effort that makes it feel not really worth it. As a torque sensor system, riding seems very natural and gear changing is easy. I think that it should work very well on the Pino with its Sachs 3x7 gears. If there is anything worth posting in the meantime I will.
hemo
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Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by hemo »

Which supplier did you use/ buy it from and which power version ?
The TSDZ2 is by all accounts a more intuitive and a better ride feel then the Bafang BBS.
John in Leeds
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Joined: 25 May 2010, 9:39pm

Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by John in Leeds »

Got both motor and battery from Aliexpress hemo. The unit 48v battery with the motor controller set to 25 kph max and 6 amps. Shortly I will include a meter to measure voltage and amps with a cumulative watt count. From reading around the subject it is clear that ALL the ebike motors can produce far more than the 250 watt legal limit. It is the controller that ensures conformity. What I hope to do is comply with both the spirit and letter of the law.
Sadly I have not used a bafang motor but have used bosch, yamaha and shimano powered ebikes. In the small time I have used the tsdz2 it does seem to compare quite well in ease of use.
loafer
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Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by loafer »

picked this up on Friday night from https://www.kbcycles.com/ HaiBike Sduro Trekking 7.0 g/f got the 5.0 model as they could not get hold of 7.0 for her size, had a sort test run today as it was very chilly...put in a few of the climbs that she struggle's on. thinking she is impressed was a great deal of fun if I do say so myself.. :D :D :D

https://www.strava.com/activities/1357142997
WP_20180113_004.jpg
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willcee
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Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by willcee »

THIS is to anyone who has experience of using the Tongsheng tsdz2, I have been researching a mid motor and read that this is a better more powerful unit than the heralded Bafang series. on the unit I am considering through Amazon a throttle comes with the kit.. how does this actually operate.. as ime if there's a motor connected to the cranks surely they will turn with the motor pedaling or not, is there a freewheel system on the crank drive enabling one to cease turning the pedals and use the motor to move forward at a decent speed , not just the 6/7 kph mentioned about the Bafang.. reason I ask , my hips are due replacement, on the bike I get very little discomfort but would tire at 20 miles plus not badly but its mainly discomfort coming from my issues.. will
hemo
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Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by hemo »

Tsdz2 has a freewheel built in for coasting etc.
The drive is a torque sensing drive so will only give extra comparable to the input you give.
Reliability is still an issue and there have been various failures on Endless sphere forum there is a large 57 page tsdz2 thread. Failure includes main drive cog, pas sensor and internal pawls, but overall users appear quite happy when it works well siting they feel bette rand more intuitive then the Bafang BBS.
The throttle on thesE kits aren't a retrofit affair so if you want throttle you have to buy the throttle orientated version.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 160edc4bc0

Throttle use is independant to the torque drive and once in the settings can be set above the 6km/h limit.
Bonefishblues
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Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by Bonefishblues »

Apropos of general electrical matters, this is the first custom build I've noticed by a builder I follow:

http://www.beaumontbicycle.com/blog/201 ... g-electric
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willcee
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Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by willcee »

hemo, thx for the link, very interesting forum.. its quite exciting to garner up all the"expert "opinions and end users data before biting the bullet, thankfully most of the internal probs with the gearing inside the unit [i did read most of the 57 pages] seems to come from what i would call 'non cyclists' those who ask the motors torque to try and drive low gears , so starting off from a standstill , trying to pull away on the big ring on an 11 tooth on the back.. also many have changed to a 52 ring when the designers fitted a 42 ring , the unit seems to be geared to a 90 RPM limit suiting anyone who pedals with a reasonably high cadence and obviously the unit will make more useable torque with the std ring or even a smaller one, like a 40T.. Here in the UK we are decidedly in E infancy, in the USA and even in Euro land experience abounds..perhaps in the fullness of time this small E forum here will also be able to provide detailed expertise to those wishing to venture into Electric cycling same as we do for those who ask about cabled gearing issues and pedal power.. will
kwackers
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Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by kwackers »

willcee wrote:not just the 6/7 kph mentioned about the Bafang.. reason I ask , my hips are due replacement, on the bike I get very little discomfort but would tire at 20 miles plus not badly but its mainly discomfort coming from my issues.. will

Not sure where you get the 6/7kph from, on a good day (i.e. wind behind me) I've easily exceeded 30kph on mine when I've played with the throttle.

What I found with the bafang (as set up out of the factory and with the controller I mentioned above and with the number of assist levels set to 5) then it:

On assist 0 the throttle does nothing whether peddling or not.
On 1, it creeps forward if not pedalling but does nothing extra if you are.
On 2, it moves forward at a moderately slow pace if not peddling and adds nothing if you are.
On 3, it moves forward at a reasonable pace if not peddling and adds to the assist if you are (increasing the power, max speed and cadence cut off)
On 4, it moves forward at a decent pace, increases the assist further when pedalling (power, speed and cut off)
On 5, it drives the bike as fast as it can (seems to ignore the max speed setting) and despite 5 being the max assist it does appear to add a bit more 'boost', removes the max speed and cadence cut offs.

From what I've seen if you want to reprogram the motor then all the above is up for grabs, you can set it up however you like.
hemo
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Location: West Sussex

Re: Taken the plunge.

Post by hemo »

willcee wrote:hemo, thx for the link, very interesting forum.. its quite exciting to garner up all the"expert "opinions and end users data before biting the bullet, thankfully most of the internal probs with the gearing inside the unit [i did read most of the 57 pages] seems to come from what i would call 'non cyclists' those who ask the motors torque to try and drive low gears , so starting off from a standstill , trying to pull away on the big ring on an 11 tooth on the back.. also many have changed to a 52 ring when the designers fitted a 42 ring , the unit seems to be geared to a 90 RPM limit suiting anyone who pedals with a reasonably high cadence and obviously the unit will make more useable torque with the std ring or even a smaller one, like a 40T.. Here in the UK we are decidedly in E infancy, in the USA and even in Euro land experience abounds..perhaps in the fullness of time this small E forum here will also be able to provide detailed expertise to those wishing to venture into Electric cycling same as we do for those who ask about cabled gearing issues and pedal power.. will


There is all ready a good UK source of info on Pedelecs uk forum.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/find-new/1575915/posts.

Using Google chrome and it translater Pedelecforum de. is a good source of info as well.

Endless sphere community is massive covering all corners of the globe, predominantly US oriented with most topic about fast hot rodded throttle control bikes and rather large and powerful voltage systems above 60v often talke about.
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