pendix crank motors

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
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willcee
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pendix crank motors

Postby willcee » 8 Nov 2017, 11:30pm

surfing is such fun...http://www.pendix.com/fileadmin/Pendix/ ... lisch.pdf..
also..http://www.pendix.com/#themotor
this in english starts at p22.. there is a UK supplier and he wants sole fitting if he sells you one, i think i may try to buy in continent and it should be cheaper.. anyone found a road test.. also, the electronic guys out there, would omitting the speed sensor stop it cutting power at 15.5.. all that said its definitely the neatest set up i have come on so far, and all German engineering.. will

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby [XAP]Bob » 9 Nov 2017, 12:56pm

I really like that idea - how much is it though...
1.490,00 €

Wa...

Yeah, nice idea, but I've been struggling to justify half of that on a BB motor for a Christiania trike...
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kwackers
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby kwackers » 9 Nov 2017, 1:51pm

It's like a small version of a modern washing machine motor.

Looks pretty good though, I'm guessing it must be torque driven since otherwise it could drive the pedals faster than you could spin them and I guess 'coasting' on the throttle isn't possible for the same reason?

reohn2
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby reohn2 » 9 Nov 2017, 2:07pm

At approx £1325 for the kit,it's expensive but looks very compact,stylish and appears well made.If it's as good as it looks then it may well be worth the outlay.
FWIW,our front wheel 17ah kit for the Circe tandem cost £800,we were sorely tempted to go for a Heinzmann kit which was £1550 and if we thought it would be used daily racking up the miles we may well bought that.
I think it all depends what you want from a pedelec kit as to what level of kit you require and the Pendix seems to be in the upper bracket.
What also makes it good from a touring POV is that you can still use multiple chainrings on the spider provided and with a choice of battery pack appears to offer a very good range,and all without disurbing your chosen and prefered wheels.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby [XAP]Bob » 9 Nov 2017, 3:55pm

It looks like a ST BB, so you ought to be able to stick with your current spider and RHS crank I guess...

It does look really nice, but I'm not sure that much 'niceness' is required on a cargo trike ;)
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

reohn2
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby reohn2 » 9 Nov 2017, 6:12pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:It looks like a ST BB, so you ought to be able to stick with your current spider and RHS crank I guess...

But the kit comes with the crank/spider so may as well have them matching.

It does look really nice, but I'm not sure that much 'niceness' is required on a cargo trike ;)

My emphasis wasn't on the niceness,more on the practicality of a crank motor that allows the use of triple chainrings in a neat low and compact package that allows you to use your own wheels and a choice of battery packs of varying amps,the fact that its nice is a plus but it should be for that kind mular :shock: :wink:

PS,a video showing it fitted to a brommie,but the price has gone upto £1600 :shock: in rip off UK :- https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IYUu1uOVvkQ
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby [XAP]Bob » 9 Nov 2017, 8:21pm

Ouch!

I suppose various people will complain about the increased Q factor as well...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.

reohn2
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby reohn2 » 9 Nov 2017, 10:37pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:Ouch!

Indeed! :?

I suppose various people will complain about the increased Q factor as well...

It comes with the price :mrgreen:
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kwackers
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby kwackers » 10 Nov 2017, 10:02am

reohn2 wrote:My emphasis wasn't on the niceness,more on the practicality of a crank motor that allows the use of triple chainrings in a neat low and compact package that allows you to use your own wheels and a choice of battery packs of varying amps,the fact that its nice is a plus but it should be for that kind mular :shock: :wink:

Why would you need triple chain rings?

The only reason I can think of is if the motor isn't running, but then it'd be a pretty poor bike. Motor drag and the extra weight would kill it, even though the triple chain ring would take some of the pain out of riding it in that state it'd be a thankless task and not one you'd do voluntarily.

As a tourer I think ebikes are nowhere near good enough yet. Batteries are nothing like good enough and I doubt most folk would carry several. I guess you could carry a fast charger and persuade various tea shop en-route to let you use it but that seems a bit hit 'n miss. When batteries reach that point then the triple chain ring isn't necessary anyway because of the motor assist.

With my crank driven motor I think the chainset would be better with a narrower range. I'm toying with the idea of removing the touring chainset and replacing it with a road one.

My biggest issue with this particular setup is that it looks as if it drives the pedals when the motor is running.

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willcee
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby willcee » 10 Nov 2017, 7:18pm

If you had a good look at the PDF in the link there is an electronic connection to the bottom bracket,its described as such,has to be fitted very carefully and in a particular orientation.. I may be wrong but I would assume that means if you stop pedalling it cuts the power,I couldn't really imagine the Germans who have really grasped the ' E ' bike boom with both arms designing any aftermarket unit that would allow a fixed or semi state nor could the use of double or triple derailleur handle such an arrangement..I haven't yet seen any road test.. will

kwackers
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby kwackers » 10 Nov 2017, 8:45pm

willcee wrote:If you had a good look at the PDF in the link there is an electronic connection to the bottom bracket,its described as such,has to be fitted very carefully and in a particular orientation.. I may be wrong but I would assume that means if you stop pedalling it cuts the power,I couldn't really imagine the Germans who have really grasped the ' E ' bike boom with both arms designing any aftermarket unit that would allow a fixed or semi state nor could the use of double or triple derailleur handle such an arrangement..I haven't yet seen any road test.. will

That's not what I meant.

If you had a throttle then the pedals would turn so you couldn't coast under power without the pedals spinning.

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willcee
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby willcee » 10 Nov 2017, 10:45pm

I'm certain that whatever you meant was not in any way clear to me or any of the forum who have read this contri.. again there's no throttle available even as an extra, just the 3 level switch which is atop the battery.. no disrespect intended, but when considering a totally different concept to anything else which is available at this present time I personally like to cover all the bases and I value first hand experience..I outed this on this new section of the forum where perhaps mass of cycle teck experience albeit in infancy regards 'E' machines could assist those who don't really want a dash like a motorcycle, or chunky hubs, or a Chinese made motor, or a hamper like battery pack, and MY hope of hopes... someone has bought one and could let us know what they thought... will

reohn2
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby reohn2 » 10 Nov 2017, 10:48pm

kwackers wrote:
reohn2 wrote:My emphasis wasn't on the niceness,more on the practicality of a crank motor that allows the use of triple chainrings in a neat low and compact package that allows you to use your own wheels and a choice of battery packs of varying amps,the fact that its nice is a plus but it should be for that kind mular :shock: :wink:

Why would you need triple chain rings?.....

Coz I'm old and infirm :? :wink:
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willcee
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby willcee » 10 Nov 2017, 11:18pm

NEED???And Me , I need two new titanium/ceramic additions in my hips..I know that reown has had hip issues successfully dealt with.. mine are on the list for June 2018, and October if the waiting list is believable.. this could help ease me back faster,pedalling without any issues, I hope..will

kwackers
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Re: pendix crank motors

Postby kwackers » 11 Nov 2017, 6:54am

willcee wrote:I'm certain that whatever you meant was not in any way clear to me or any of the forum who have read this contri.. again there's no throttle available even as an extra, just the 3 level switch which is atop the battery.. no disrespect intended, but when considering a totally different concept to anything else which is available at this present time I personally like to cover all the bases and I value first hand experience..I outed this on this new section of the forum where perhaps mass of cycle teck experience albeit in infancy regards 'E' machines could assist those who don't really want a dash like a motorcycle, or chunky hubs, or a Chinese made motor, or a hamper like battery pack, and MY hope of hopes... someone has bought one and could let us know what they thought... will

I did try to condense the issue into one sentence "torque driven since otherwise it could drive the pedals faster" etc.

I can only go off my own very limited experience of a mid drive system.
There is always going to be some lag between effort and motor response, both on and off. If the motor can drive the pedals (as this design dictates) then there's going to be something going on.
I too would like to hear first hand what they're like - it's a lot of money to spend just to find out.
FWIW if you have dodgy hips/knees then I'd suggest having a throttle so you can give them a rest from 'spinning' is a major plus as well as the ability to 'get off' from a start without too much (or any) peddle pressing. This design appears to prevent that.

The battery pack they use is similar in form factor to lots of available packs. You don't have to have a hamper style pack. Personally I'd like to see batteries which would fit into some of the 'nooks and crannies' available but short of making up your own pack that's unlikely to happen.
Having said that, the current size of a battery pack with a decent range is now bearable. Easy to imagine that shortly the same capacity at a half or even a quarter of the current size will be available which means they'll be near irrelevant.

Fitting the 'assist' level to the top of the battery is imo a cost cutting measure. There's no doubt the best place for it is somewhere you can reach with your thumb whilst on the bars - I appreciate some folk don't want to make their bars look like a motorbike dash though.
That could be just me though, I like to change the assist frequently throughout the ride as I balance effort / conditions and battery life.

Back to the triple chain ring.
Driving the crank gives a greater torque range by far than a hub drive. IME of mid drive as long as the motor has power there's absolutely no reason to drop off the main chain ring since it has no problem driving into wind AND up an hill regardless of your contribution. (And if it doesn't have power then it's an emergency and hopefully rare).
If you want to stay legal then with a 15mph top speed tbh you may as well throw away the main chain ring and fit a smaller one anyway, perhaps around the 32/36 size? On a 42 the motor is useless for most of the top range of the rear otherwise. (And again, peddling without power you probably want a smaller chain ring anyway to deal with drag and mass).

As for Chinese motors, if you look on youtube at how folk abuse the bafang mid drives running a few KW through them, throttle only on mountain bikes etc I think you'll find they're well up to the sorts of job we might want from them (certainly don't seem to break as often as some of the well known German motors).
The Chinese are well on top of modern controllers and motors, you just need to spend your money wisely. In fact I'd suggest they're ahead of the curve and have been for a while.

<edit>
I'm not having a go at this design, just pointing out my thoughts. What I do like about it is how clean it looks and I'd love a go on one just to see and compare, could well be my thoughts are meaningless.