E-bikes: depressing or what?

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
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horizon
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E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby horizon » 11 Nov 2017, 1:14am

From the Guardian:

Caswell believes bike-sharing is here to stay and the next big change will come with the introduction of electric bikes. He plans to roll out a fleet of 200 e-bikes in Derby next spring.

“I have a few demo models and people absolutely love them,” he said.

Roberts agrees that e-bikes could attract a whole new audience to bike-sharing.

“They’ll give people who don’t normally cycle a back-up – maybe they’ve got a dodgy knee or a bad back, maybe they don’t want to get sweaty. With an e-bike they’ll be able to get up those hills,” she said.

I found this depressing if true but possibly untrue.
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Cunobelin
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby Cunobelin » 11 Nov 2017, 6:18am

Seems to be a reasonably sensible idea. If it gets people who would not otherwise cycle on two wheels then it is worthwhile.

My MiL extended her bike usage by some 18 years by using an e-Bike

kwackers
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby kwackers » 11 Nov 2017, 6:34am

Why depressing?

e-bikes are great. I remember a while ago the conversation on here about how they'd never take off when to me it was obvious they were here to stay.
Given how many I see around there's no doubt which way the wind is blowing.

The conversion I've done on mine makes a 20 mile each way commute feel like 6 or 7. I can put effort in as and when I want - essentially 'fartlek' the journey and more importantly I can do it every day in a reasonable time and in most conditions and it doesn't get in the way of my running (which is my main 'exercise').

I do feel guilty passing other cyclists struggling into headwinds or up hills, having been there I empathise with them...

As for bike sharing schemes. I'm less certain. E-bikes are ideal for these but my experience of the Liverpool one is that the bikes aren't looked after, vandalism is rampant, stations become less usable and it's not always possible to find a bike.
They've recently reduced the number of stations, one station with 8 bays I looked at the other day had only 3 working slots the others had been blocked off. There should be over 1000 bikes but looking online I could only count 130. I think it's only a matter of time before they give up on it.
E-bikes would be easier to abuse, more expensive and the returns smaller (I doubt folk will up the amount they pay to rent one by very much) I hope I'm wrong.
Rentable e-bikes are a step along the road to small rentable city cars which with self driving would be brilliant - if you can find a way to deal with the crap folk abusing them.

brynpoeth
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Nov 2017, 7:51am

It's the economy stupid

The electric vehicle industry will use lots of resources and create lots of work :(

Speeds will increase, that endangers me too

It might be good if old or frail people could keep cycling, but the bikes must have speed limiters

I want to get sweaty, that is reason enough..
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby Heltor Chasca » 11 Nov 2017, 8:25am

E bikes are a wonderful thing. They extend the time the older or less able can spend on a bike. Those riders can go further. The carbon footprint is small and at least some physical activity takes place. I bet an e bike owner is fitter than they were driving or sat on the sofa.

53% of bike sales in the NL are e bikes. But then again, the Dutch don’t get this whole cycling thing do they?

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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Nov 2017, 8:34am

Heltor Chasca wrote:E bikes are a wonderful thing. They extend the time the older or less able can spend on a bike. Those riders can go further. The carbon footprint is small and at least some physical activity takes place. I bet an e bike owner is fitter than they were driving or sat on the sofa.

53% of bike sales in the NL are e bikes. But then again, the Dutch don’t get this whole cycling thing do they?


53% by value, or by number of machines? %)
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby kwackers » 11 Nov 2017, 8:36am

brynpoeth wrote:but the bikes must have speed limiters

Why speed? Why not power?

What limits the speed of an ordinary bike? Answer the power.
Why should speed be the preserve of the young and fit?

Seems to me that a power limit with no speed restrictions levels the playing field, or perhaps that's what folk are truly afraid of.. ;)

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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Nov 2017, 8:46am

kwackers wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:but the bikes must have speed limiters

Why speed? Why not power?

What limits the speed of an ordinary bike? Answer the power.
Why should speed be the preserve of the young and fit?

Seems to me that a power limit with no speed restrictions levels the playing field, or perhaps that's what folk are truly afraid of.. ;)


On narrow cycle ways with two-way traffic many go too fast already. E-bikes are vehicles and should go on the road with cars maybe

I am not a physicist, not sure why power should be limited instead. Best to limit both

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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby pwa » 11 Nov 2017, 8:49am

I must confess that I've been researching E-bikes recently. Not for myself, but for my son. He has a new job coming up, a good one that he sees as his first foot on a ladder that he wants to be on. But it has funny hours that sometimes mean getting there before the buses start. The journey is only about 3 or 4 miles, but he wants to get there in a non-sweaty state. He could just cycle, I accept, but an E-bike might mean he feels better about the journey. No decision made yet.

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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby kwackers » 11 Nov 2017, 8:58am

brynpoeth wrote:On narrow cycle ways with two-way traffic many go too fast already. E-bikes are vehicles and should go on the road with cars maybe

Indeed. I was out for a run early last week and had to leap out of the way of an idiot who came around a blind corner faster than he could possibly stop. His wasn't an e-bike, had it been an e-bike I doubt it would have made any difference.
brynpoeth wrote:I am not a physicist, not sure why power should be limited instead. Best to limit both

We do. But why don't we limit speed for bicycles? The power is about the same so in theory performance is as near as dammit the same (higher for a fit young bloke on a bicycle).

Leaving the power limit alone but removing the speed limit means that downhill with the wind behind you an ebike might see 30mph - about the same as an average cyclist.
I'm struggling to see why that's a problem other than "I don't like the idea of someone using a motor rather than their legs".
Last edited by kwackers on 11 Nov 2017, 8:59am, edited 1 time in total.

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Cunobelin
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby Cunobelin » 11 Nov 2017, 8:59am

brynpoeth wrote:It's the economy stupid



Given that you appear unaware of any of the regulations or limitations regarding e-Bikes.......

The electric vehicle industry will use lots of resources and create lots of work :(


But still less than if that person was using a combustion engine?

Speeds will increase, that endangers me too


Fast?
They are limited to 15 mph. Slower than many other bikes.

It might be good if old or frail people could keep cycling, but the bikes must have speed limiters


Again they are limited already, if these are really dangerous at 15 mph, do we need to look at the increased dangers of other bikes travelling routinely at faster speeds

I want to get sweaty, that is reason enough..


I don't want to wear a helmet or waterproofs, but would not stop you

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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby brynpoeth » 11 Nov 2017, 9:01am

pwa wrote:I must confess that I've been researching E-bikes recently. Not for myself, but for my son. He has a new job coming up, a good one that he sees as his first foot on a ladder that he wants to be on. But it has funny hours that sometimes mean getting there before the buses start. The journey is only about 3 or 4 miles, but he wants to get there in a non-sweaty state. He could just cycle, I accept, but an E-bike might mean he feels better about the journey. No decision made yet.


Just cycle slowly :wink:
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby pwa » 11 Nov 2017, 9:18am

brynpoeth wrote:
pwa wrote:I must confess that I've been researching E-bikes recently. Not for myself, but for my son. He has a new job coming up, a good one that he sees as his first foot on a ladder that he wants to be on. But it has funny hours that sometimes mean getting there before the buses start. The journey is only about 3 or 4 miles, but he wants to get there in a non-sweaty state. He could just cycle, I accept, but an E-bike might mean he feels better about the journey. No decision made yet.


Just cycle slowly :wink:


Actually, I have suggested that. I should add that he has a car that he is overly inclined to use on short trips, so he is probably considering that as one option.

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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby kwackers » 11 Nov 2017, 9:27am

pwa wrote:Actually, I have suggested that. I should add that he has a car that he is overly inclined to use on short trips, so he is probably considering that as one option.

I've just completed my second week of commuting by ebike.
20 miles each way, it needs to take the same amount of time door to door as using the train does.

The end result is; normal clothes, not sweaty (no showers) and enough exercise to feel as if I've cycled half the distance at a comfortable rate.

Saves me nearly a tenner a day on train fares, doesn't make me too knackered for my main exercise (running).

Only downside is I've 'lost' one of my bikes. (Might have to buy another...)

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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby Heltor Chasca » 11 Nov 2017, 9:50am

brynpoeth wrote:
Heltor Chasca wrote:E bikes are a wonderful thing. They extend the time the older or less able can spend on a bike. Those riders can go further. The carbon footprint is small and at least some physical activity takes place. I bet an e bike owner is fitter than they were driving or sat on the sofa.

53% of bike sales in the NL are e bikes. But then again, the Dutch don’t get this whole cycling thing do they?


53% by value, or by number of machines? %)


No idea. Just the figure (IIRC) I read in Bike Nation. Either way, the numbers are weighty enough to point to the obvious rather than the irrelevant.