E-bikes: depressing or what?

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
kwackers
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby kwackers » 7 Jan 2018, 10:01am

andrew_s wrote:That's what the law means when it says "no assistance over 15.5 mph".
<snip>

I followed a guy on a bike the other day doing 30-35mph (not electric).
If doing 30mph on a bicycle is dangerous then it should be banned - electric or not makes no difference.
andrew_s wrote:If you really want to go fast without effort, pass the test (if required), and get a motorcycle, electric or otherwise.
We've been through power-assisted pedal cycles, and people saying "if only you do this, I could go faster" once already, and the end result is the Suzuki Hayabusa and its ilk.

I'm sorry that's nonsense.
Large motorcycles require large licenses, large insurances and these days even special training. Claiming that a 250w bicycle will turn into a 'busa is a logical fallacy and has absolutely no relevance.

I'm more than happy to argue for change where I think it's needed. Personally I think the speed limit is nonsense and unnecessary since it's implied by the power limit anyway. Removing it won't have ebikes tailgating large motorcycles or wheelying past you at motorway speeds.

As I've posted further up I'd also argue for another class of e-bike a little more power and no speed limit but with compulsory insurance.
It's difficult to see what possible argument there could be against an insured but still 'simple' electric bicycle, particularly if it can get more folk out of cars.
I also know from experience that on some roads being able to keep up with traffic is the safest option by far (even if it means doing <cough> 30mph). And we are genuinely interested in safety are we not? (Although I appreciate everyone and their dog is a traffic policeman, happy with their own 'safe' indiscretions but absolutely rabid when it comes to others).

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Graham
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby Graham » 7 Jan 2018, 10:12am

kwackers wrote: (Although I appreciate everyone and their dog is a traffic policeman, happy with their own 'safe' indiscretions but absolutely rabid when it comes to others).

Too good to lose.

hemo
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby hemo » 7 Jan 2018, 10:39am

Although stupid the 15.5 mph and 250w limits were adopted from Japan where I believe the likes of Panasonic first produced in any number hub motors where from there on in Western Europe accepted and adopted them as the standard, though for many years the UK only had a legal 200w limit and was only officially brought in to line with the EU guidelines 3 or 4 years ago.

kwackers
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby kwackers » 7 Jan 2018, 11:53am

hemo wrote:Although stupid the 15.5 mph and 250w limits were adopted from Japan where I believe the likes of Panasonic first produced in any number hub motors where from there on in Western Europe accepted and adopted them as the standard, though for many years the UK only had a legal 200w limit and was only officially brought in to line with the EU guidelines 3 or 4 years ago.

Did the 200w limit also have an associated speed limit?

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horizon
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby horizon » 7 Jan 2018, 1:34pm

willcee wrote: a stupid limit which the UK adopted without much thought and very certainly no experience of day to day cycling speeds.


I get the impression that it is in fact a very clever limit (albeit as you and others have pointed out, a bit artificial and contradictory). It seems to have established a class of electric bikes that are in fact bicycles. Maybe Northern Ireland has it logically more correct - if it's powered it must be a motor bike. But this lower limit has given lots of riders the green light to tackle hills and keep up with fitter partners without straying into motorbike territory.

The point of my original post is that this overlap (bicycle with small, legally limited electric motor) removes the need for physical effort. In health terms maybe not as good but plenty of people have disagreed with me.

Whle you and kwackers have rightly pointed out the inconsistencies in the legal limit, it may just have given the electric bike its biggest ever boost (I'm still sticking to my 90% in five years forecast :) )
Bikes belong on trains: two spaces per carriage would meet most needs.

kwackers
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby kwackers » 7 Jan 2018, 3:32pm

horizon wrote:The point of my original post is that this overlap (bicycle with small, legally limited electric motor) removes the need for physical effort. In health terms maybe not as good but plenty of people have disagreed with me.

Perhaps I expect too much, but imo they're almost useless without input from the rider. Slow acceleration, not that quick.
But as an assist they're pretty good.

As I said though might be my expectation. Perhaps if my fitness were less I'd be more impressed with what they can do without me.

hemo
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby hemo » 7 Jan 2018, 11:01pm

kwackers wrote:Did the 200w limit also have an associated speed limit?


Speed limit was the same 25km/h.

Adamski
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby Adamski » 22 Jan 2018, 10:54am

I have recently been diagnosed with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, and I will be getting an e-bike, because otherwise, I would not be on 2 wheels at all!

Sure, it would be great to be heading up a mountain under my own steam, but sadly that has to become less and less of a reality for me from now on.


I am glad to be able to continue riding, but sorry that so many of the cycling community will be looking down on me!

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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby reohn2 » 22 Jan 2018, 11:17am

Adamski wrote:I have recently been diagnosed with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, and I will be getting an e-bike, because otherwise, I would not be on 2 wheels at all!

Sure, it would be great to be heading up a mountain under my own steam, but sadly that has to become less and less of a reality for me from now on.


I am glad to be able to continue riding, but sorry that so many of the cycling community will be looking down on me!

I hope you enjoy your e-biking.
I wouldnt concern myself about the naysaying elitists,they're either just jealous or too proud to admit that e-bikes are the future for many cyclists and currently non cyclists alike :wink:
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Patrickpioneer
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby Patrickpioneer » 23 Jan 2018, 4:09pm

Who will be " . . . .looking down on you" ?

Remember no one has the right to judge you other than you yourself, and none of us know what others are thinking.
Just get out on what ever and live!
Hope all goes well, take care.

Phil Fouracre
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby Phil Fouracre » 2 Apr 2018, 12:33pm

I do love these ebike 'discussions'! You can do whatever you like, it's your bike, your life - they are a simple assist, if that's what you want. Turn the power off, and you'll get a way better work out than that critical [rude word removed] on a carbon fibre bike :-) who you might think will be 'looking down on you'
Perfect example yesterday, we grabbed a gap in the awful weather, and called in to see a friend for coffee, about thirty mile round trip, all pleasant enough. Stopped to watch some carriage driving and chatted to another cyclist, who had to say, 'oh! thats one of those cheating bikes'! Missus not impressed, and, I got about as close as I've ever been, in front of her, to my usual rejoiner of 'you mistake me for someone who gives a toss what you think' :-)
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby PH » 2 Apr 2018, 12:39pm

Did an Audax on Saturday on my Rohloff bike, someone at the start asked me if I was allowed to do it on one of "them" which puzzled me until their friend told them it wasn't electric :lol:

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cyclemad
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby cyclemad » 2 Apr 2018, 2:49pm

I have an bike and a couple of carbon road bikes...all appeal to me...The ebike is used as daily transport when on holiday with the other half who also has one ....car stays put.

I use my carbon road bikes on other days when she isn't with me ....

:D

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willcee
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby willcee » 2 Apr 2018, 9:14pm

'Fraid I would have used' the rejoiner'' no matter whether Royals had been present.. Tactless comment from many so called cyclists who have never had the' E 'experience no doubt.. Mine is almost finished,mid mount Bafang 160n/m.. waiting on some battery power, weighs in on my winterised drop barred alloy Merckx at around 35.5lbs .. that was 25 before I began.. still have a carrier to be removed, different smaller chainwheel 42T added in alloy, and wiring loom to be trimmed to size when I have the bar area fully sorted, so with battery added minus the above I think it may be around 38 total weight.. Do I care what anyone thinks... No.. My Cycle bud has just ordered an Orbea Gain 2018 model drop barred machine which looks very normal, he's recovering from a broken hip 5 weeks ago today .. so him in recovery and me waiting on my replacements we'll be a right pair , ourselves, on our sunday or midweek run!! will

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horizon
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby horizon » 24 May 2018, 12:09am

Adamski wrote:
I am glad to be able to continue riding, but sorry that so many of the cycling community will be looking down on me!


Well I won't be. But that won't stop me expressing the opinion that e-bikes might divert an otherwise healthy person needing to travel short distances from exploring the health and fitness benefits of an unpowered bike.

That doesn't mean that e-bikes cannot replace cars or e-bikes cannot be used for long, arduous commutes or ebikes cannot provide a cycling experience for people for whom an unpowered bike is too much or indeed that e-bikes cannot be used by people who - just want to ride an e-bike. It just means that some people might be better off persevering with an ordinary bike before they give up on ever being able to ride up that hill they find at present so difficult.

In fact I doubt it applies to anyone on this forum. But there just might be some people out there who really don't know what a human being on a bicycle is capable of.
Bikes belong on trains: two spaces per carriage would meet most needs.