E-bikes: depressing or what?

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
waveuk
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby waveuk » 17 Nov 2017, 9:40pm

Not just opinions but a proper research.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0516303930

craiggor
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby craiggor » 17 Nov 2017, 9:42pm

horizon wrote:
meic wrote:
The sting in the tail of this wonderful machine called the bicycle is that it's useless on hills:

Steady on man, that is simply going too far!!! :shock:
Bicycles are merely a tiny bit challenged by hills.


Well it doesn't roll up them

And the raison d'etre for ebikes is ....?
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reohn2
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby reohn2 » 18 Nov 2017, 12:10am

horizon wrote:
reohn2 wrote:[ welcome that decision.
I suspect most people who use these bikes won't be cycling enthusiasts,but people who simply wish to travel from AtoB with as little fuss and effort as possible


The sting in the tail of this wonderful machine called the bicycle is that it's useless on hills: its saving grace is that if you do tackle the hills you get a pay-off in terms of fitness and health. Previously, you got that whether you wanted it or not. Now (and the lithium battery really is a now, not a prior), you (and the city) can get all the benefits without the effort. That's fine - except that this uncalled-for side benefit (fitness) won't exist (or at least not to the same extent).

If you think that that isn't a problem then ebikes are the BTSSB. If you think that the hidden secret of the bicycle is not its cheapness and flexibility but its ability to demand good health of you, then, yes, it is a problem.

We can argue about the extent to which an ebike still demands effort (obviously it does) and we can argue about the extent to which an ebike doesn't demand effort. But I think we can agree that an ebike would be a bit useless if it didn't mitigate the need for effort at all. Current medical thinking AFAIK is that the human body needs that peak effort occasionally. Of course, you could always cycle to the gym on your ebike (or cycle on a non-ebike at the weekends).

I simply dont understand your point


Probably because I have made a simple point complicated by trying to cover all the angles.

Been there done it,ALL my life.
The real point is that others don't always want what I've had,the sheer pleasure of cycling unassisted for it's own sake.
Those people aren't going to suddenly be me,but more of them will enjoy some of that pleasure with electrical assistance,if that assistance wasn't available they would never enjoy any of it.
Without it they won't cycle at ALL,that's what you don't get!
Then there's those who wish to carry on enjoying cycling but don't have the fittness capacity to,the evil lithium battery and electrickery it produces may help them and lead them astray from the straight and narrow road that continues their nirvana.Those people have been to the mountain top and have seen the light,but can't perhaps remain there of their own accord and volition for whatever reason.
Or those who just want to get around locally without the cost,pollution and sheer hassle of owning driving and putting up with a car,but think walking is a little on the slooowww side and so will make good use of an e-bike.
Puritanically we'd all be riding single speed roadsters because everything after that made life waaayyyy too easy,sheesh it gets worse,talk about wood for trees........
Story alert:-
Some time back,probably 5 years ago,I was unlocking my (unassisted)bike outside the Post Office when an old chap passing by commented on how nice he thought my bike was and asked how mwany gears it had,I answered 27.He said he used to cycle tour and that all his riding had been on SA 3speed IGH,his comment was something along the lines of "if they give you three gears that's all you really need" and for him in his hey day he was right,but today more is available to make life easier......
Second story alert:-
Until my retirement I worked hard,really hard,all my life,and never found a job that I didn't work at trying to find an easier way around doing it to save time money and hard graft,I suspect everyone's the same.
That said some people like doing a job the hard way for the sake of doing the the job in the way they like doing it,that is to say for the pleasure of doing it.
Between the two there's a whole panopoly of achieving the same result according to the mind of the individual's perception of that achievement,dont judge others by your own standards or means to that end,the result's the same the meaning maybe for entirely different reasons.
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brynpoeth
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby brynpoeth » 18 Nov 2017, 9:21am

meic wrote:
The sting in the tail of this wonderful machine called the bicycle is that it's useless on hills:

Steady on man, that is simply going too far!!! :shock:
Bicycles are merely a tiny bit challenged by hills.


I do wish the laws of physics could be changed so that one could ride uphill without having to ride down again
Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott.. Alternative facts welcome

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meic
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby meic » 18 Nov 2017, 9:24am

We should arrange a swap, my uphills for your downhills.

Woooosh!
Yma o Hyd

kwackers
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby kwackers » 18 Nov 2017, 9:42am

meic wrote:We should arrange a swap, my uphills for your downhills.

Woooosh!

Hills have never been my bugbear. Wind on the other hand...

That's the trouble with commuting. If the wind is against you in the morning, chances are it'll spin around and get you on the way back too!

pete75
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby pete75 » 18 Nov 2017, 10:52am

meic wrote:I have no problem with that. Though there are plenty of complaints that the existing licence system for motorcycles is already too complex.

My CanAm Bombardier manages to squeeze itself into a bit of a hole due to not being large enough cc to sit a test on but too high power to weight ratio to ride without passing that same test!


Eh? I thought you could do tests on any bike you can ride on L plates - the limit was 250 but I think that's now been changed to 125 . I did mine on my L plated super six 250 and my mate did his on a Honda 90 - he sold it the next day and bought a Bonneville.

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Cugel
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby Cugel » 18 Nov 2017, 11:27am

E-bikes, like all technological innovations, will have an associated list of intended benefits, advantages, pleasures and other good effects. As with all other technological innovations, e-bikes will come with a raft of unintended consequences, a number of which will turn out to be detrimental or even the antithesis of an intended good effect.

For example, it's almost certain that novice cyclists able to go at 15.5mph right from the off will get into trouble because they haven't developed, at safer speeds, the necessary skills for riding a bike besides that of pushing vigorously on the pedals for hours. They will hit things or fall off because they're going faster than their various cycling skills can cope with.

If they're lucky, no one will be seriously hurt and they'll get a valuable stimulus to the rate of their cycling skill development. The unlucky will cause themselves and others serious damage. I recall a recent media story of older Dutch born-again cyclists harming themselves and others with their new e-bikes as they hurtle about - although the worst cases had e-bikes not limited to a mere 15.5mph.....

Cugel, planning to get one when my FTP drops below 150 watts, hopefully not for many years yet.

reohn2
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby reohn2 » 18 Nov 2017, 11:56am

meic wrote:
The sting in the tail of this wonderful machine called the bicycle is that it's useless on hills:

Steady on man, that is simply going too far!!! :shock:
Bicycles are merely a tiny bit challenged by hills.

No they're not,being inanimate they're not challenged by anything.
People on the other hand.....
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reohn2
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby reohn2 » 18 Nov 2017, 12:02pm

craiggor wrote:Image


A very nice retro e-mobile :)
What frameset is that?
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craiggor
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby craiggor » 18 Nov 2017, 12:11pm

I had an old MTB frame that had bent chain and seat stays so I cut the back end off and welded the back end of an ebike I was given on to that.
ImageImageImage

reohn2
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby reohn2 » 18 Nov 2017, 1:05pm

Nice job :D
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horizon
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby horizon » 18 Nov 2017, 1:43pm

reohn2 wrote:The real point is that others don't always want what I've had,the sheer pleasure of cycling unassisted for it's own sake.


It isn't really a pleasure, uphill it's hard and occasionally a bit sickening and most people hate it.

Until my retirement I worked hard,really hard,all my life,and never found a job that I didn't work at trying to find an easier way around doing it to save time money and hard graft,I suspect everyone's the same.


Yes, we are and humankind is. It's the great irony: human beings must both exert themselves for health and save their energy in order to survive. But our instinct to make things easier is killing us. The unpowered bicycle was a little glimmer of light and even that is now possibly extinguished.
It's autumn in England with the trees turning golden. So we say leaves mean leaves.

reohn2
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby reohn2 » 18 Nov 2017, 1:59pm

horizon wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The real point is that others don't always want what I've had,the sheer pleasure of cycling unassisted for it's own sake.


It isn't really a pleasure, uphill it's hard and occasionally a bit sickening and most people hate it.

I must be a masochist in that case.
But those who don't like it will find an e-bike just the job

Until my retirement I worked hard,really hard,all my life,and never found a job that I didn't work at trying to find an easier way around doing it to save time money and hard graft,I suspect everyone's the same.


Yes, we are and humankind is. It's the great irony: human beings must both exert themselves for health and save their energy in order to survive. But our instinct to make things easier is killing us. The unpowered bicycle was a little glimmer of light and even that is now possibly extinguished.[/quote]
I disagree,what's killing us is the longest working hours in Europe for less money earned and needing a highly polluting private vehicle to and from that work whilst breathing in the crap such vehicles spew out in the process.
The e-bike offers a cheap and clean alternative to that polluting private vehicle for short distance transport with some exercise involved whilst the people who enjoy unpowered cycling will continue to enjoy unpowered cycling.
YVMV.
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bigjim
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Re: E-bikes: depressing or what?

Postby bigjim » 18 Nov 2017, 2:15pm

Im big and heavy. Not overweight, just big and heavy. All that goes against me on hills so I don't enjoy long hard climbs. Short sharp hills are fine. I also don't think that constant hard excercise is good for you.
So Ebikes gives one the choice. You don't have to have the power assist all the time. When those hills get too much, you can call for a bit of assistance. Sounds good to me.
The non-cyclists that use the power all the time is also fine by me. What do you want to share the road with? A hundred Ebikes or a hundred cars?
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