E-bikes: depressing or what?

[horizon]

The ebike stands at a crossroads: either it will replace cars or it will replace bicycles. Sadly my money is on the latter.

[bigjim]

The ebike stands at a crossroads: either it will replace cars or it will replace bicycles. Sadly my money is on the latter.

I think you will lose your money. Keen cyclists will not transfer to an Ebike. Motorists sat in ever increasing jams in an ever more expensive metal box will be casting an eye over them.

[Vetus Ossa]

I ride my ebike exclusively now as I am not able to ride the other eight bikes in my garage, and am very happy doing so. The thing is up until a year ago I was able to ride my road bikes, and the thought of buying an ebike had never entered my head, and would still be riding them if I was able to.

[kwackers]

The ebike stands at a crossroads: either it will replace cars or it will replace bicycles. Sadly my money is on the latter.

I was out on my ebike earlier - sans battery.
It did feel a bit leaden I must admit...

On my way home from work I've been knocking the assist off for a few miles at a time - admittedly on the straight bits and at a higher pace than I'm comfortable at. Then when I get knackered pop the assist back on and have a rest.

It's a hoot.

[reohn2]

The ebike stands at a crossroads: either it will replace cars or it will replace bicycles. Sadly my money is on the latter.

I was out on my ebike earlier - sans battery.
It did feel a bit leaden I must admit...

On my way home from work I've been knocking the assist off for a few miles at a time - admittedly on the straight bits and at a higher pace than I'm comfortable at. Then when I get knackered pop the assist back on and have a rest.

It's a hoot.

An interval hoot

[reohn2]

The ebike stands at a crossroads: either it will replace cars or it will replace bicycles. Sadly my money is on the latter.

It won't be an either or but a suppliment to,and a replacement of either when the time/situation/place is convenient for the user.
I can think of a variety of circumstances where someone would use an ebike in place of a car or an unassisted bike and for different reasons.
I think your fears are unfounded for the cyclist and are very founded for a motorist,whose commute is a drudge due to congestion.But as I posted up thread it needs quality,safe,cycling infrastructure to reduce car use nd increase both types of cycling.
PS,Don't worry,be happy,as the song goes

EDITED for clarity

[mjr]

The real point is that others don't always want what I've had,the sheer pleasure of cycling unassisted for it's own sake.

It isn't really a pleasure, uphill it's hard and occasionally a bit sickening and most people hate it.

Personally, I think that's doing it wrong. There seems to be a cult of masochism that it's very easy to get sucked into, that we must go ever faster and further, pushing ever harder, now encouraged by collecting ever more little computerised trophies or posting mileage numbers on websites, but that's not actually possible with age, illness and even winter working against us to make a fluctuating decline the most likely outcome. I embrace it. If it's too hard uphill, I change down. If there's no more gears down, then I stop, look back down the hill, enjoy the view for a moment, then have a nice walk for a change. When that starts to take too long to be fun, I'll happily get an ebike.

[Cyril Haearn]

The ebike stands at a crossroads: either it will replace cars or it will replace bicycles. Sadly my money is on the latter.

KISS, keep it short and simple, +1 for the formulation!

That is my fear too, but there will always be real cycles without assistance

[kwackers]

That is my fear too, but there will always be real cycles without assistance

Of course there will.

There'll always be purists and there'll always be occasional users for whom the maintenance isn't worth the hassle for that twice a year ride round the park with the kids and even amongst commuters there'll always be people who simply don't need them.

Bicycles will always exist because they are simple.
There's no doubt ebikes will replace some cycle usage but they'll also open up cycling for a lot of people too.

[horizon]

There seems to be a cult of masochism that it's very easy to get sucked into, that we must go ever faster and further, pushing ever harder, now encouraged by collecting ever more little computerised trophies or posting mileage numbers on websites, but that's not actually possible with age, illness and even winter working against us to make a fluctuating decline the most likely outcome. I embrace it. If it's too hard uphill, I change down. If there's no more gears down, then I stop, look back down the hill, enjoy the view for a moment, then have a nice walk for a change.

I agree with everything you say here, though for many there is pleasure in the physical challenge. For others though, despite what you say, there will be a moment of physical challenge - it is inevitable (if not, then there would be no point in electric bikes). But whether you go for the pain or find a way round it, bit by bit you are increasing and improving your health and fitness - it is an unavoidable by-product of cycling.

The irony is that we are discussing a technology that obviates discomfort and unpleasantness and yet we know that gaining health and keeping fit often requires just that (at least at first). I think what makes cycling diferent from say a session at the gym (which also involves discomfort and unpleasantness) is that it mixes it in with pleasure, distraction, achievement, practicality and indeed convenience. We accept, don't notice or simply enjoy the physical side of cycling. An e-bike, while not completely eliminating effort and still delivering pleasure and convenience, removes the intensity of effort required for hills, distance and sustained speed. And therefore some or even perhaps (according to some experts) the most important health giving benefits of cycling are removed.

Whether you consider that "something not to like" depends on your own opinion but I would certainly still maintain that it is not "nothing not to like".

[reohn2]

One of my earlier posts:-

Those who find E-bikes depressing are depressing me
What happened to freedom?
Walk around any town or city centre and count the private cars,that's what's depressing.

[Cyril Haearn]

One of my earlier posts:-

Those who find E-bikes depressing are depressing me
What happened to freedom?
Walk around any town or city centre and count the private cars,that's what's depressing.

+1 %-(

Fred Grimm described how in the middle ages streets were full of muck, people just threw their rubbish out and called *gardyloo!*
Now the streets are disfigured instead by vehicles that get uglier each year, the new ones look even worse than the old ones

[PH]

The ebike stands at a crossroads: either it will replace cars or it will replace bicycles. Sadly my money is on the latter.

Why will they replace anything? They're another option in the transport mix, if you start out with some unrealistic expectation no wonder you find it depressing. Depending on what the user is looking for, some ebikes journeys will be instead of using the car, some instead of walking, some instead of pedalling, some instead of using public transport, some to do do journeys that wouldn't otherwise have been made and some will make one journey to the back of the garage and stay there.
Your objection to Ebikes seems to be based on the theory that it will make people who otherwise would have peddled lazy, but what is the evidence that such people would have used a bike anyway? What makes you think they won't get their exercise some other way? Or use the Ebike more than they would a bike providing equal effort?
The hire scheme in the OP (Which I would have preferred to include none assist bikes) is intended for the journeys that are not presently made by bike. There's plenty of advantages to these short hires, if implemented well, you don't have to have a bike with you all day, it's easy to mix with other forms of transport, you can make one way journeys, you don't have to plan ahead, it's cheap... really, what's not to like?

EDIT - I may have mentioned this before: A third of the bikes bought on my workplace C2W scheme are Ebikes. From my observation, those using them were not cycling before, where those purchasing none assist bikes usually were.

[horizon]

what is the evidence

The evidence is all around us. But I accept my conclusion is completely speculative and only one part of the picture. And there are lots of other likely outcomes as you yourself point out, many of which will emerge in parallel. I think all that I really want is for us to take step back and reflect on it. I don't think it's all good and I don't think it is all bad. My OP was triggered by the thought that someone has walked into this without reflection.

[kwackers]

My OP was triggered by the thought that someone has walked into this without reflection.

I doubt it. I suspect they've genuinely given it some thought.

If you want to improve fitness you probably should just ban cars and force everyone to walk. If your fitness is low enough that a hire bike is beneficial then you'd actually gain more from walking (cycling is very efficient, especially slowly).

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that against the arguable point of fitness that there are very many positives. Probably the most important of which is getting folk who don't cycle on a bike, I suspect the novelty alone will get more bums on seats than any amount of righteous preachiness.