EC and insurance

[squeaker]

Could be a game changer, or not? No idea how officialdom could enforce this, given the scale of motor vehicle insurance avoidance

[Cyril Haearn]

A game-changer for the insurance industry €€€

[hemo]

All in all it's non starter, every EU nation would have to ratify it become law in doing so it would most likely be the death of most ebikes and many companies/sellers would go under.
Biggest EU bike nation are the Dutch can't see them agreeing, number plates,tax discs etc etc.
It would also discriminate against riders who have no driving licence.
Next up they will want to introduce a Fart tax

[Psamathe]

From the article

However, there is an important provisio: "The current Directive already provides Member States with the power to exempt [ebikes] from motor third party liability insurance.

Ian

[Psamathe]

I wonder how this would affect disability scooters (buggies)? I've no idea if they currently need "motor insurance" but I'd assumed they don't. But given that some ride on the roads I can't see how you'd include e-bikes, segways, etc. without including mobility scooters, yet I can't see mobility scooters should/would ever be included in requiring motor insurance. Or do they included mobility scooters in what the call "motor scooters".

Ian

[PDQ Mobile]

On the other hand IMHO some sort of (compulsory?) minimum Third Party cover for the eventuality of causing dearh or serious injury (and it does happen occasionally) would be no bad thing for all the parties concerned.
A claim against such an injury or death is very very expensive, not to mention legal costs.

Premiums covering such a risk would be tiny.
Indeed membership of the CTC used to include Third Party Insurance if memory serves me well.

Some European countries used to have it as a requirement to ride a bike on the public road, a numbered sticker was provided at the time of purchase, proving cover, which was bought at a Post Office.
Bikes (and their owners!)from abroad were exempt from the requirement.
Cost was around a fiver (£5) a year.

[Psamathe]

On the other hand IMHO some sort of (compulsory?) minimum Third Party cover for the eventuality of causing dearh or serious injury (and it does happen occasionally) would be no bad thing for all the parties concerned.
A claim against such an injury or death is very very expensive, not to mention legal costs.

Premiums covering such a risk would be tiny.
Indeed membership of the CTC used to include Third Party Insurance if memory serves me well.
.....

I'd think (maybe you mean) that were such a requirement introduced the case for it would equally apply to cyclists (no motors), maybe even pedestrians (who could step out, cause a car to swerve ...).

My main concern is the impact on disabled mobility buggies. Even small additional costs could severely impact some which could have a devastating impact on their options to be independent and just to "get out".

Ian

[Psamathe]

From the article

However, there is an important provisio: "The current Directive already provides Member States with the power to exempt [ebikes] from motor third party liability insurance.

Ian

Thinking further on this aspect, I assume say your home country does not implement the requirement but you took your e-bike on tour including to other countries that had implemented the requirement then you'd be required to have such insurance.

Ian

[gaz]

All in all it's non starter, ...

Yet it is already the case in Northern Ireland: https://audioboom.com/posts/6357850-ann ... -ebike?t=0

[hemo]

In N.I it is so because pedelecs aren't legally recognised as they are classed as a moped which isn't the case elsewhere.

[ricardito]

membership of the CTC used to include Third Party Insurance if memory serves me well.

Still does.

[hemo]

membership of the CTC used to include Third Party Insurance if memory serves me well.

Still does.

This insurance is for non motorised pedal bikes and pretty sure will prove to be invalid for pedelecs.
Also getting insurance currently for pedelecs isn't cheap in the the 100's of pounds if you can get one insured. A few have managed for speed pedelecs but they have had to go thru the red tape of licensing and SVA testing, then most insurnace companies have little or no way of how to insure them.

Any attempt to introduce mandatory insurance by the EU will have to go thru the hoops of consultation and then be ratified by members countries, in turn for this to happen it will have to be debated and approved by each government of said countries to be implemented. There will be some countries unwilling to do this esp those that have excellant cycling structures in place.

[PH]

This insurance is for non motorised pedal bikes and pretty sure will prove to be invalid for pedelecs.

I'm pretty sure it is
Not hard to find out, must be a popular question, No 3 in the FAQs

3. Is my electric cycle covered? If so, what are the restrictions?
Answer: Where the main source of propulsion is electrical, the cycle would not be covered as it
would be classified as a motor vehicle and should therefore have Road Traffic Act insurance.
However, if it has pedals and is mainly used as a conventional bicycle (unicycle, tricycle, tandem or
triplet) and only has electric assistance then it would be covered.

https://www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default ... _faqs_.pdf

[Cyril Haearn]

Just been to an e-bike fair to gather some Facts

98%+ of e-bikes sold in Germany are Pedelecs: they have pedal drive like ordinary bikes plus a motor to help starting, the motor cuts out at 25 kmh and only works when the pedals are being turned
Pedelecs are legally bicycles
Source: DVR booklet

There are four other categories, which have to be insured and be fitted with a number plate
Up to 45 kmh:
S-Pedelec, assistance only when pedalling
E-bike, motor drive also when not pedalling
These are "small motorcycles", one needs a licence and must wear a helmet

E-Bike/MoFa*
Up to 25 kmh, motor drive also when not pedalling, no licence needed, helmet required
The same up to 20 kmh: no helmet required!
Source: Polizei Luebeck

* MoFa: motorised bicycle

98%+ are "bicycles plus" apparently
Is the figure similar in UK, NL etc?

[hemo]

I think the 98%+ is pretty much the same here in the UK, AFAIK only one outlet/brand sells S-Pedelecs though does warn customers of the legality. It was said some of their custom was from Policeman in a private capacity
Other sellers of S-Pedelecs will only sell if you 100% prove it is for private land only.
Kits are the other option available and being Chinese these are easy to set a higher cut off speed and most often are 350 - 1000w. Only Bafang BBSO1B, Bafang SWXO1, some Yose kits and a few offerings on Ebay are 250w rated and marked.
A most frequently asked question on Pedelecs UK by a few new owners is how do I increase the cut off speed on my OEM bike.