Cycling UK Forum

Have to say I am very attracted to the Gain. If I am to continue cycling, options appear to be 1. move house 2. somehow convert my c.16lb carbon framed bike to run with a 20" bottom gear 3. buy electric. 1. is expensive. 2. is impossible (contrary opinions welcome!) 3. is expensive. Short of a lotto win, guess I better hope walking will do as much for my health as cycling!

djnotts wrote:Have to say I am very attracted to the Gain. If I am to continue cycling, options appear to be 1. move house 2. somehow convert my c.16lb carbon framed bike to run with a 20" bottom gear 3. buy electric. 1. is expensive. 2. is impossible (contrary opinions welcome!) 3. is expensive. Short of a lotto win, guess I better hope walking will do as much for my health as cycling!

Opt 3 is still cheaper then Opt 1.
For carbon possible option might be the Revos friction drive from Revolution works in Bristol.

hemo wrote: Opt 3 is still cheaper then Opt 1.
For carbon possible option might be the Revos friction drive from Revolution works in Bristol.

Except that Option 1 would be paid out of sale proceeds and therefore cost me no cash! Friction drive has a long history, but I have to say does not appeal and while not expensive still probably much the same as converting my Ultegra 2 x 10 Planet X Carbon to some sort of 2 x 11 set up with a sub-compact chainset and up to 40T rear cassette.

All I seek is 20-22" bottom gear for last 1-2 miles home every ride. Easily achieved but not on a very light bike!

I WILL need e assist should my health hold out another 6 - 12 months, but I'd prefer to do without as long as possible. Vanity I guess, plus a belief that putting in as much effort as possible is "good for me" (and all my lung specialists agree).

I just bought a second hand Gain and it's very good for my urban commute.

However, I am wondering how much drag is normal when the motor is switched off.

In Orbea's descriptions, it sounds like you can ride it like a normal bike without assistance but that's not my experience.

It rides reasonably well without the motor but the drag is very noticeable. Is this normal or is something wrong with the bike?

Thanks in advance,

EC

ElCampesino wrote:I just bought a second hand Gain and it's very good for my urban commute.

However, I am wondering how much drag is normal when the motor is switched off.

In Orbea's descriptions, it sounds like you can ride it like a normal bike without assistance but that's not my experience.

It rides reasonably well without the motor but the drag is very noticeable. Is this normal or is something wrong with the bike?

Thanks in advance,

EC

I have found mine to be pretty much drag free BUT if you switch off the power when riding along there is a bit of a delay with drag as the motor disengages - just stopping turning the pedals for a moment seems to sort it and then runs as just a slightly heavier bike than perhaps you're used to.

Rob

I moved to ebikes to keep cycling with friends during my blood cancer (Myeloma) treatment which has wrecked my haemoglobin and red cell production. But I can keep cycling as long as the chemo works thanks to batteries! My original purchase was a Giant Road E which was brilliant and although I tried to keep pedalling a normal bike when I could, the Giant quickly became my weapon of choice due to battery life, handling, versatility, and power delivery. I found that I needed to exploit the higher power settings on a group ride to recover for a few minutes before edging it back down again to ECO once my legs were ok. Also the 15.6mph limit is a bit tiresome but all in all, a great design in my opinion if a tad heavy. It looks like an ebike which happily doesn’t bother me so it is getting a lot of good use. I then saw the Orbea Gain and was very tempted to get one as a ‘best summer bike for 2019’ (ever the optimist) which eventually I did...the Ultegra version. Although aesthetically advanced and very well engineered, I am wondering if it suits my specific needs. It is a very different approach to the Giant as claimed by the marketing materials talking about Enough Power. It is much more subtle and you have to work harder which in my case is a problem because I should avoid exhaustion so I need a big kick sometimes. I do notice a little drag from the motor, power delivery is less obvious, but of course it looks more ‘normal’. Battery life is good considering the limited capacity as long as you don’t use too high a setting. I reckon my need is for an additional 100w to keep up with my group at 15-16mph on an undulating route which would give about 40 miles with ease. I have only ridden it 200 miles or so but I am not drawn to it as strongly as the Giant. All in all I am not really convinced it suits me and I am considering swapping it for another Giant. I stress that this is not a criticism of the Orbea, just an observation that we need to be careful about understanding why we want an ebike and what we want it for!

Neil, heres hoping you are on the mend, As you know i have a mate who bought one of these early spring and loved it that was until it reached its zenith at 25 kph, I did lots of research and asked questions of Orbea in Spain as regards the cutoff kph in USA where they are also selling these without any result, others here more knowledgeable than myself on Hub motors and associated cambus wiring could perhaps enlighten us as to whether that special lockring on the freehub with all those magnets would have some control over the wheel speed which [ or perhaps not] would be the way that speed is measured and therefore may have some bearing on the cutoff.. I know that 250w hubs aren't as strong as midmotor versions but I would be fairly confident that Orbea where they have now successfully developed a kit for other manufactures using this exact setup have left some reserve power if one knew how to access it..will

willcee wrote:Neil, heres hoping you are on the mend, As you know i have a mate who bought one of these early spring and loved it that was until it reached its zenith at 25 kph, I did lots of research and asked questions of Orbea in Spain as regards the cutoff kph in USA where they are also selling these without any result, others here more knowledgeable than myself on Hub motors and associated cambus wiring could perhaps enlighten us as to whether that special lockring on the freehub with all those magnets would have some control over the wheel speed which [ or perhaps not] would be the way that speed is measured and therefore may have some bearing on the cutoff.. I know that 250w hubs aren't as strong as midmotor versions but I would be fairly confident that Orbea where they have now successfully developed a kit for other manufactures using this exact setup have left some reserve power if one knew how to access it..will

My understanding from the chap that designs our ebike is that the cassette lockring with magnets only operates to work a "switch" - the lockring turns and says "the rider is pedaling so the motor can work" to the switch. On that assumption one assumes that the speed limit is governed by software ..... but, as a Gain owner, the max of 25kph under power s fine for me.

As an aside, I too am a recovering cancer patient and after some drastic surgery I am pretty much recovered but not to the level of (apparent!) fitness as before - hence the Gain to use when I want a bit of assistance, as well as still using my non-powered bikes for some riding.

Rob

OK so how does software measure the speed? it has in some way to take wheel revs into account, hub Motor speed is wheel speed..I would doubt that they do the same as modern cars, to have a sensor on the final drive, speed simply would be easier measured at the wheel revolution and it obviously not linked other than magnetic drives on the lockring, we have played with the idea of using a normal lockring to see what that does haven't done so yet but will.. and report.. will

willcee wrote:OK so how does software measure the speed? it has in some way to take wheel revs into account, hub Motor speed is wheel speed..I would doubt that they do the same as modern cars, to have a sensor on the final drive, speed simply would be easier measured at the wheel revolution and it obviously not linked other than magnetic drives on the lockring, we have played with the idea of using a normal lockring to see what that does haven't done so yet but will.. and report.. will

My Orbea dealer pal tried a standard cassette lockring to see what happened and the motor did not work.

Rob

My idea was to drill the lockring and add 1 magnet and epoxy it in [a strong neo type] and see what happens.. will

robgul wrote:My understanding from the chap that designs our ebike is that the cassette lockring with magnets only operates to work a "switch" - the lockring turns and says "the rider is pedaling so the motor can work" to the switch. On that assumption one assumes that the speed limit is governed by software ..... but, as a Gain owner, the max of 25kph under power s fine for me.

The lockring is part of the cassette? i.e. if you stop pedalling it stops turning?

If so then it's only used as you say to show the rider is pedalling. (You should be able to pedal slowly and the bike will still drive forward).

If there are no other speed measuring bits on there then it probably speed controls by limiting the maximum frequency it drives the hub at.
The software will tell it what the wheel size is and how many 'poles' the motor has so it's a fairly trivial thing to limit the max speed.

Being in software, if you know what to do you can almost certainly change it. There must be a way to switch regions if the bike migrates across the world...

Yep - you can get the power to kick in with merest turn of the pedals.

Rob

robgul wrote:Yep - you can get the power to kick in with merest turn of the pedals.

Rob

Does it work if you pedal backwards?

RickH wrote:

robgul wrote:Yep - you can get the power to kick in with merest turn of the pedals.

Rob

Does it work if you pedal backwards?

Dunno - I'll give it a go next time I ride it!
Rob