Hill starts

[ChrisF]

Yesterday I met two friends on the beach; they both have e-bikes and this beach is down a 15% hill - but they had used their standard bikes to get there. On asking why, I was told that they had previously used them here but had failed to get back up the hill. The gradient in itselff wasn't a problem (they have fairly powerful hub-mounted motors) but it's a narrow road and cars coming down forced them to stop half-way - and they couldn't start again; couldn't get enough speed to make the pedelec kick in. So had to go back down the hill and start again. After this happened 2 or 3 times they gave up using the e-bikes for their (local) beach.
Now, my other half (who I've been trying to persuade to get an e-bike for a while, so we could do more rides together, and was beginning to think it might be a good idea) was entirely put off by this story, since an e-bike is supposed to be the perfect answer to going up hills.
I assume a non-pedelec (i.e. a throttle-control) version wouldn't have this problem, but they aren't legal on UK roads, are they? What's the solution?

[PH]

I had a go on an off road MTB electric that had a throttle (Actually a button on the grip) that powered it without peddling to get it started in just such a circumstance, which off road is going to be pretty common. I understand the law allows for such with a maximum speed of 4mph, which ought to be enough to get pedalling.
EDIT - Also remember a user out on a club run, when we all got off to walk over a bridge, his pedlec had a "Walk" mode and powered itself up while he walked alongside.

[Cunobelin]

I am not sure I understand the problem.....

Pedelecs simply require a minimum speed for the assistance to kick in, if you can reach that speed on a normal bike, you can on a pedelec

My Christiania has no problems with hill starts

[yakdiver]

If you had put the bike in a very low gear to start off with you will not have a problem. On my trike I do have a throttle pre Dec 2016, but I'm sure Plod is not going to know when your ebike was made unless you tell him or there is a makers date stamped on it, more so if it is a bike conversion.

[Phil Fouracre]

As has been said already, the right gear should cure the problem. Why not fit a kit, which allows the use of a throttle, rather than buy an ebike, if you are worried that it might be a nuisance? This was one of the reasons why we went for kits, rather than a purpose built.

[reohn2]

What coincidence!
We're currently on holiday in South Devon,Branscombe beach is 4miles almost all up hill to the campsite we're on and there is some 200m 10% and 15% steps in that climb with an immediate 15% from the beach car park.
Yesterday leaving the beach on the tandem I put it in bottom gear and selected the highest power level then waited a minute or two for a car to go up first and followed it
It was at the top before we were half way up but a car waiting at the top in the passing place could clearly see us coming and waited,needless to say we were in primary.
We stopped a couple of times further up the climb on 10%ish sections to let cars pass us either going up or down and found it no trouble starting again in a low gear.

[ChrisF]

, if you can reach that speed on a normal bike, you can on a pedelec

Maybe I need to explain a bit more. I know, from trying hill starts on my own (non-e) bike , that is if loaded with luggage (i.e. more equivalent in weight to an e-bike) and I put it into the lowest gear, I can't get enough force on the pedals to get to a speed at which the bike will continue to balance (the pedals spin too much). I can start if I move to a higher gear (and then change to a lower gear pretty soon to keep going), but it needs a huge effort - an effort which the e-Bike is supposed to remove.
So, yes I can reach that speed on a normal bike, because i'm an experienced and fairly fit rider, but the e-bike is designed to make it easier for non-experienced riders.
And the the friends I mentioned can reach that speed on normal bikes but they can't on the e-bikes because of the extra weight.
I guess I'll have to try it myself, although with zero experience of a e-bike it woudn't be a fair test.

[ChrisF]

What coincidence!

We stopped a couple of times further up the climb on 10%ish sections to let cars pass us either going up or down and found it no trouble starting again in a low gear.

Thanks, that sounds promising but the hill in question was 15% - the Branscombe 10% would probably be OK. Is your Tandem a pure Pedelec or does it have a throttle overide?

[rjb]

What coincidence!
We're currently on holiday in South Devon,Branscombe beach is 4miles almost all up hill to the campsite we're on and there is some 200m 10% and 15% steps in that climb with an immediate 15% from the beach car park.

Hope you are enjoying your holiday. If you are still there on Sunday you may need to put in some extra tent pegs. Very strong winds forecast.

We've ridden our tandem there on a few occasions - day rides from Bridgwater. Not now though, we now use the bus from Seaton, walk back to Bere and bus back to Seaton.

Not quite ready for an electric boost but in a few years time may need it.

[comfortablynumb]

Never had any problem, power wise at least, to restart on hills. The only problem I have had especially riding some rough tracks around Porlock last week is keeping the front wheel down! That's on a KTM with Bosch CX Performance centre drive.
When looking for my first e-bike a couple of years ago I was advised that the hub drive set up is not very good for steep hills, good advice maybe?
Chris, Cornwall eh? If you are ever in Bodmin area you are welcome to try it.
Steve.

[reohn2]

What coincidence!

We stopped a couple of times further up the climb on 10%ish sections to let cars pass us either going up or down and found it no trouble starting again in a low gear.

Thanks, that sounds promising but the hill in question was 15% - the Branscombe 10% would probably be OK. Is your Tandem a pure Pedelec or does it have a throttle overide?

Here's a thread about the conversion:- viewtopic.php?f=55&t=117719
Yes it has a throttle but I never use it.

[reohn2]

Hope you are enjoying your holiday. If you are still there on Sunday you may need to put in some extra tent pegs. Very strong winds forecast.

We've ridden our tandem there on a few occasions - day rides from Bridgwater. Not now though, we now use the bus from Seaton, walk back to Bere and bus back to Seaton.

Not quite ready for an electric boost but in a few years time may need it.

Thanks for the heads up on the weather,we're heading home on Sunday and towing the caravan so don't like the sides if high winds,we may need to leave tomorrow if it's so bad

We've been coming down here to Sidmouth for the folk festival off and in for 30 odd years,beatiful area

[hemo]

Throttle aren't illegal on retail ebikes before 2016, it is deemed legal on kits as these aren't covered specifically under pedelec legislation.
It is only illegal to have a full working throttle after 2016 though any bike after this date can have a throttle if it is only actuated after/whilst pedalling.

[ChrisF]

Never had any problem, power wise at least, to restart on hills. The only problem I have had especially riding some rough tracks around Porlock last week is keeping the front wheel down! That's on a KTM with Bosch CX Performance centre drive.
When looking for my first e-bike a couple of years ago I was advised that the hub drive set up is not very good for steep hills, good advice maybe?
Chris, Cornwall eh? If you are ever in Bodmin area you are welcome to try it.
Steve.

Thanks, Steve, fo the offer.
Seems from all the replies that there isn't really a problem here, so I need to convince my other half of this. I'll get a decent try of one of my friends' eBikes here, nearer Truro, to see if I can find out what they are doing wrong. Although I'm a tad worried that if I get to like riding an e-Bike I might be tempted to get one myself......

[hemo]

Stick bike in lowest gear and use highest assist level, once familiar and comfortable with starting on hills adjustments to gear selection and assistance level can be made later.