Ribble SLE

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
Roger_H
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Ribble SLE

Postby Roger_H » 1 Mar 2019, 5:07pm

Does anyone have any direct experience of this bike (in any of its variants)? FWIW my interest is useful range. I had contacted Ribble to try and get an idea of the realistic range envelope but I can only say I found them most unhelpful (which made me suspiciously think the range wasn't very good!)

Anyway, any experience would be of interest (eg rider weight, type of terrain, speed, level of assist etc).

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robgul
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby robgul » 1 Mar 2019, 6:10pm

I would suggest that you look at the Orbea Gain threads here and elsewhere as the Ribble models are remarkably similar for ideas on range (and the Orbeas are somewhat cheaper too!)

I sell electric bikes in my shop and the two questions everyone asks :

1 How far does it go on a battery charge? There is no definitive, hand-on-heart answer as it depends on the terrain, power level used and the effort input from the rider

2 Does it charge as you ride? That one's easy - NO - the effort to power the charging mechanism would absorb most if not all of the power assist (that's just a crude answer)

Have to say I've found (as a potential personal consumer, not my shop, Ribble a a bit of a Marmite outfit.

Rob

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horizon
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby horizon » 1 Mar 2019, 6:37pm

It may be true to say that you can have hills, weight and distance just not all at the same time. Maybe there should be a standard such as x number of miles carrying x amount of weight at an average speed of x with x metres of ascent. Maybe all bikes would come in the same though.
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rjb
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby rjb » 1 Mar 2019, 8:00pm

I know nothing about electric bikes but am surprised they don't have regenerative braking, it's not rocket science to recharge your battery whilst coasting downhill, and it's pretty simple too. :shock:
At the last count:- Focus Variado, Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin, Raleigh 20, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D

NickWi
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby NickWi » 1 Mar 2019, 9:51pm

rjb wrote:I know nothing about electric bikes but am surprised they don't have regenerative braking, it's not rocket science to recharge your battery whilst coasting downhill, and it's pretty simple too. :shock:


https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... raking.pdf Just about covers it.

kwackers
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby kwackers » 1 Mar 2019, 10:10pm

NickWi wrote:
rjb wrote:I know nothing about electric bikes but am surprised they don't have regenerative braking, it's not rocket science to recharge your battery whilst coasting downhill, and it's pretty simple too. :shock:


https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... raking.pdf Just about covers it.

Yep, too hard and almost no reward.

Best way to save energy is not to brake. It's the system I try to use, that way all the energy is used to keep me moving forward.
You also save far more in brake blocks, rims, pads etc than you'd recover in energy.

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horizon
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby horizon » 2 Mar 2019, 12:17am

I was watching a shopping channel tonight as they were selling a folding ebike. They said it weighed in at 24 kg with battery and was suitable for someone up to 120kg. This is a purely hypothetical question as an ebike would make life relatively easier at any weight, but I just wondered at what point the motor would be obviated by a reduction in weight of bike and/or rider (starting with the 24 kg/120 kg). So a person of say 65 kg on a lightweight 10 kg bike would be equivalent to a person of X kg on a bike weighing X kg with a motor (250 W, 24 V in this instance). The initial thought I had was that some of the power output of the motor would simply be for shifting the heavier bike (with a 3 kg battery) or perhaps a heavier rider.
Let's just get Brexit done so that we can get on with the important job of re-joining the EU!

kwackers
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby kwackers » 2 Mar 2019, 9:45am

horizon wrote:I was watching a shopping channel tonight as they were selling a folding ebike. They said it weighed in at 24 kg with battery and was suitable for someone up to 120kg. This is a purely hypothetical question as an ebike would make life relatively easier at any weight, but I just wondered at what point the motor would be obviated by a reduction in weight of bike and/or rider (starting with the 24 kg/120 kg). So a person of say 65 kg on a lightweight 10 kg bike would be equivalent to a person of X kg on a bike weighing X kg with a motor (250 W, 24 V in this instance). The initial thought I had was that some of the power output of the motor would simply be for shifting the heavier bike (with a 3 kg battery) or perhaps a heavier rider.

If a reasonably fit cyclist can put out 200w then you're more than doubling the power so in terms of acceleration you can weigh over twice as much and get the same acceleration.
In terms of speed that's predominantly aerodynamic do it depends how that changes with size rather than anything to do with mass.
Hill climbing is the same as acceleration, you can more than double your mass - although on the way down the combined mass means you'll be a lot faster.

Given their market is I suspect relatively unfit people then 250w is likely 2-3 times the effort such people are capable of so the gains are a lot larger.

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horizon
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby horizon » 2 Mar 2019, 10:24am

Thanks for that kwackers (though I'm still getting my head round it!).

I'm looking now at power to weight ratio. This seems to say that a fit cyclist putting out 250W and weighing say 65 kg has a PtoW ratio of about 3.5. Add the bike (say 12 kg) and it's about 3.2. Taking the TV example, an unfit rider of say 95 kg putting out 120W will have a PtoW ratio of 1.2 but less if the extra weight of the bike (24 kg) is added, let's say .9.

However the motor adds back in 250W giving a PtoW ratio of about 3.6. All these figures are very approximate but it seems to me that losing 20 kg of body weight, 10 kg of bike weight and going from 120W to 250W personal power output would neutralise the help of the motor. I think that's a tall order for an individual to achieve but it seems to imply that for most reasonably fit, not overweight cyclists with a lightish bike, they are better off than an overweight, unfit person on a heavy ebike.

NB This post my get the award of the most unscientific piece ever posted on this forum. :D
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Roger_H
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby Roger_H » 2 Mar 2019, 11:46am

robgul wrote:I would suggest that you look at the Orbea Gain threads here and elsewhere as the Ribble models are remarkably similar for ideas on range (and the Orbeas are somewhat cheaper too!)

I sell electric bikes in my shop and the two questions everyone asks :

1 How far does it go on a battery charge? There is no definitive, hand-on-heart answer as it depends on the terrain, power level used and the effort input from the rider

2 Does it charge as you ride? That one's easy - NO - the effort to power the charging mechanism would absorb most if not all of the power assist (that's just a crude answer)

Have to say I've found (as a potential personal consumer, not my shop, Ribble a a bit of a Marmite outfit.

Rob


I have no particular love for Ribble so feel free to substitute Wilier for Ribble. I say that because they use a motor in the rear hub and a recent comic article suggested the rear hub and bb motors had very different characteristics.

You'll note I didn't ask about regenerative power systems.

Of course there are lots of variables - but these are electromechanical systems and there must be data for their performance envelopes.

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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby kwackers » 2 Mar 2019, 12:19pm

horizon wrote:Thanks for that kwackers (though I'm still getting my head round it!).

I'm looking now at power to weight ratio. This seems to say that a fit cyclist putting out 250W and weighing say 65 kg has a PtoW ratio of about 3.5. Add the bike (say 12 kg) and it's about 3.2. Taking the TV example, an unfit rider of say 95 kg putting out 120W will have a PtoW ratio of 1.2 but less if the extra weight of the bike (24 kg) is added, let's say .9.

However the motor adds back in 250W giving a PtoW ratio of about 3.6. All these figures are very approximate but it seems to me that losing 20 kg of body weight, 10 kg of bike weight and going from 120W to 250W personal power output would neutralise the help of the motor. I think that's a tall order for an individual to achieve but it seems to imply that for most reasonably fit, not overweight cyclists with a lightish bike, they are better off than an overweight, unfit person on a heavy ebike.

NB This post my get the award of the most unscientific piece ever posted on this forum. :D


250w / (65kg + 12kg) = 3.25
(120w + 250w) / (95kg + 22kg) = 3.16

Not much in it, but that's mainly acceleration that's affected.

Then is 250w a good representation of an average cyclist? Might it be less?
What about 95kg, being unfit doesn't necessarily mean overweight.

I think the numbers are interesting but the real point is that if you're a 95Kg person who's unfit and trying to ride a bike the difference the motor makes will be amazing...

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horizon
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby horizon » 2 Mar 2019, 1:17pm

kwackers wrote:
250w / (65kg + 12kg) = 3.25
(120w + 250w) / (95kg + 22kg) = 3.16



Again, thanks - that's a really neat summary. Obviously the figures will vary between riders but it does at least give me a sense of the relative input of the motor compared to the rider.
Let's just get Brexit done so that we can get on with the important job of re-joining the EU!

peterb
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby peterb » 2 Mar 2019, 2:34pm

The Ribble SLe, Orbea Gain, Pinarello Dyodo and the Wilier Cento 1 all use the same ebikemotion X35 system, the bike model weights differ, Ribble claiming the lightest build. In my experience riding an alloy framed Tiagra equipped Gain I am getting around 8km per 10% of charge, so allowing that I don't want to exhaust the battery completely, that equates to a safe range of 75 km or so, on average terrain - undulating with one or two short hilly stretches. I am 62kg, and the bike fully equipped around 16kg. Worth pointing out that the more you ride above the assistance cut off of 25kph, the more range you'll get, but in practical terms I consider my maximum range is around 45 - 47 miles.

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horizon
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby horizon » 2 Mar 2019, 2:47pm

peterb wrote: that equates to a safe range of 75 km or so, on average terrain - undulating with one or two short hilly stretches. I am 62kg, and the bike fully equipped around 16kg. Worth pointing out that the more you ride above the assistance cut off of 25kph, the more range you'll get, but in practical terms I consider my maximum range is around 45 - 47 miles.


peterb: what do you find the bike gives you? At the weights you give and the terrain, would not 45 miles be fairly OK? I'm just wondering because I might have thought that higher speed was the bonus but this cuts out at 15 mph so is average speed noticeably higher? I am assuming of course that you have a good level of fitness (indicated by your weight?) and no disability.
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Cugel
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Re: Ribble SLE

Postby Cugel » 2 Mar 2019, 2:56pm

kwackers wrote:
horizon wrote:Thanks for that kwackers (though I'm still getting my head round it!).

I'm looking now at power to weight ratio. This seems to say that a fit cyclist putting out 250W and weighing say 65 kg has a PtoW ratio of about 3.5. Add the bike (say 12 kg) and it's about 3.2. Taking the TV example, an unfit rider of say 95 kg putting out 120W will have a PtoW ratio of 1.2 but less if the extra weight of the bike (24 kg) is added, let's say .9.

However the motor adds back in 250W giving a PtoW ratio of about 3.6. All these figures are very approximate but it seems to me that losing 20 kg of body weight, 10 kg of bike weight and going from 120W to 250W personal power output would neutralise the help of the motor. I think that's a tall order for an individual to achieve but it seems to imply that for most reasonably fit, not overweight cyclists with a lightish bike, they are better off than an overweight, unfit person on a heavy ebike.

NB This post my get the award of the most unscientific piece ever posted on this forum. :D


250w / (65kg + 12kg) = 3.25
(120w + 250w) / (95kg + 22kg) = 3.16

Not much in it, but that's mainly acceleration that's affected.

Then is 250w a good representation of an average cyclist? Might it be less?
What about 95kg, being unfit doesn't necessarily mean overweight.

I think the numbers are interesting but the real point is that if you're a 95Kg person who's unfit and trying to ride a bike the difference the motor makes will be amazing...


I can't speak for the Ribble but can tell you that it's not so simple with a Focus Parlane2 or any of the other e-bikes employing the same motor system (a Fazua Evation).

The motor & battery is rated as capable of a 250W constant output, with a capability to deliver 400W momentarily. In practice, the system detects the pedaling effort of the rider (via strain gauges in the BB gearbox to which the motor drive attaches) and provides a power output calculated to match the rider output in some way.

The obscure part is the "in some way". If one rides the Parlane, it becomes obvious that the motor varies it's output for each of it's three settings (green, blue, red giving: up to 125 watts; up to 250 watts; up to 400 watts, respectively). Going by the (guessed at) amount of power I might put through the pedals of this e-bike when I have a ride on it, there is only the maximums of 125, 250 or 400 watts if I too am putting out something like those wattages in addition, myself.

In practice, if one just tootles along, the motor does the same. I would guess that my output of, what for me is an easy, 150wats the motor in green mode (max 125 watts) is putting out maybe 80 watts. Ditto the blue: my 150 watts might be helped by about 120 watts of motor. And so forth. If I try very hard, so does the motor - accelerating up a significant hill to 15.5mph (motor cut-out speed) is quite rapid when one stomps on the pedals in blue mode.

So, some e-bikes don't have simple set power additions but, rather, variable additions governed by the user's efforts and perhaps also by the bike's speed. (The motor is connected to a speed sensor reading a rear wheel magnet, as well as to the gearbox strain gauges). I'd love to see the profiles used by the motor software for determining what power the motor will give for the rider's speed and pedaling effort.

Does the Ribble work like this? Perhaps, as the idea is that the rider of such sporty bikes should have to still try hard to cycle anywhere they go - they just go faster up the hills and into the wind. .... until 15.5mph is reached and surpassed.

Cugel