Do E-bike riders get more exercise than regular cyclists ?

Electrically assisted bikes, trikes, etc.
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Cugel
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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclists

Postby Cugel » 15 Aug 2019, 11:43am

Audax67 wrote:Ehh dear. More km ridden = more exercise? Horse feathers, when a motor is doing 30-70% of it. Our club prez got an eBike last year and now keeps nattering on about doing this col and that col and t'other col. Tell him "aye, you and your motor" and he gets all hissy and sniffy.


The 70 - 30% of push still done by the e-cyclist themselves is still a lot more than the zero push done because they wouldn't otherwise ride any kind of unassisted bike.

The 30 - 70% you mention is something of a handy guess to support your case, though. Last December I went out on the Christmas club run on the ladywife's e-bike, a mere 48 miles but plenty climbing and at a fair lick as the fast lads were out with we olepharts. I used between 10 & 15% of the battery, being able to keep up sans-motor on all but the steeper bits, where the motor meant the fast lads didn't have to wait for me at the top. Most of the ride was above 15.5mph anyway, so no possibility of motor assistance.

You purists (or is it puritans)! Why denigrate something you have no personal experience of by making-up-stuff?

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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclists

Postby Cunobelin » 15 Aug 2019, 7:33pm

Audax67 wrote:Ehh dear. More km ridden = more exercise? Horse feathers, when a motor is doing 30-70% of it. Our club prez got an eBike last year and now keeps nattering on about doing this col and that col and t'other col. Tell him "aye, you and your motor" and he gets all hissy and sniffy.


Do you do maths?

By your own statement, the cyclist does 70-30%

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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclists

Postby Cunobelin » 15 Aug 2019, 7:34pm

Cugel wrote:
Audax67 wrote:Ehh dear. More km ridden = more exercise? Horse feathers, when a motor is doing 30-70% of it. Our club prez got an eBike last year and now keeps nattering on about doing this col and that col and t'other col. Tell him "aye, you and your motor" and he gets all hissy and sniffy.


The 70 - 30% of push still done by the e-cyclist themselves is still a lot more than the zero push done because they wouldn't otherwise ride any kind of unassisted bike.

The 30 - 70% you mention is something of a handy guess to support your case, though. Last December I went out on the Christmas club run on the ladywife's e-bike, a mere 48 miles but plenty climbing and at a fair lick as the fast lads were out with we olepharts. I used between 10 & 15% of the battery, being able to keep up sans-motor on all but the steeper bits, where the motor meant the fast lads didn't have to wait for me at the top. Most of the ride was above 15.5mph anyway, so no possibility of motor assistance.

You purists (or is it puritans)! Why denigrate something you have no personal experience of by making-up-stuff?

Cugel


Because that is the way forward... demonise what you don't undesrtand

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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclist's

Postby willcee » 16 Aug 2019, 12:30am

Interesting conundrum.. speaking from experience, my own. i have needed 2 hips for some years , started being interested in '13 and outed it on here which i think started this section on E bikes etc.. built my first one last year and have used it and an other since April 18, doing around 50 miles odd a week sometimes more, weather and pain permitting.. 1st hip op was last Oct , i was using a 42 ring up until that time with a bafang motor, a powerful one.. weight loss was iro 14lbs over that period and when i was fitter/ stronger before my hips started to give out i maybe just dropped 4 lbs during the main cycle season, spoke with a physio about the increased loss and he said it was like gym workouts with lighter weights and hi reps..today same motor new frame, with a 50 ring having tried 46 and a 48 after my operation as a way to work my way back, my legs aren't as strong or as big muscle wise, not suffering the cramps, and not as much weight loss. have adjusted to the fact that my legs / glutes will never be a strong as pre op.. and still venture out on a normal lightweight when the notion takes me..and waiting on another op.. will

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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclists

Postby Audax67 » 16 Aug 2019, 1:29pm

Cugel wrote:
Audax67 wrote:Ehh dear. More km ridden = more exercise? Horse feathers, when a motor is doing 30-70% of it. Our club prez got an eBike last year and now keeps nattering on about doing this col and that col and t'other col. Tell him "aye, you and your motor" and he gets all hissy and sniffy.


The 70 - 30% of push still done by the e-cyclist themselves is still a lot more than the zero push done because they wouldn't otherwise ride any kind of unassisted bike.

The 30 - 70% you mention is something of a handy guess to support your case, though. Last December I went out on the Christmas club run on the ladywife's e-bike, a mere 48 miles but plenty climbing and at a fair lick as the fast lads were out with we olepharts. I used between 10 & 15% of the battery, being able to keep up sans-motor on all but the steeper bits, where the motor meant the fast lads didn't have to wait for me at the top. Most of the ride was above 15.5mph anyway, so no possibility of motor assistance.

You purists (or is it puritans)! Why denigrate something you have no personal experience of by making-up-stuff?

Cugel


30-70% push is around what our club prez uses on his electric steed. He gets home with <10% left.

But in any case I was thinking about the figures given in the article: 8.something km on the eBike vs 5.something on a normal bike does not imply that the eBike rider is getting more exercise, it means he's doing more kilometres.

Oh, and tell me where I made something up.
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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclists

Postby Cugel » 16 Aug 2019, 4:21pm

Audax67 wrote:
Cugel wrote:
Audax67 wrote:Ehh dear. More km ridden = more exercise? Horse feathers, when a motor is doing 30-70% of it. Our club prez got an eBike last year and now keeps nattering on about doing this col and that col and t'other col. Tell him "aye, you and your motor" and he gets all hissy and sniffy.


The 70 - 30% of push still done by the e-cyclist themselves is still a lot more than the zero push done because they wouldn't otherwise ride any kind of unassisted bike.

The 30 - 70% you mention is something of a handy guess to support your case, though. Last December I went out on the Christmas club run on the ladywife's e-bike, a mere 48 miles but plenty climbing and at a fair lick as the fast lads were out with we olepharts. I used between 10 & 15% of the battery, being able to keep up sans-motor on all but the steeper bits, where the motor meant the fast lads didn't have to wait for me at the top. Most of the ride was above 15.5mph anyway, so no possibility of motor assistance.

You purists (or is it puritans)! Why denigrate something you have no personal experience of by making-up-stuff?

Cugel


30-70% push is around what our club prez uses on his electric steed. He gets home with <10% left.

But in any case I was thinking about the figures given in the article: 8.something km on the eBike vs 5.something on a normal bike does not imply that the eBike rider is getting more exercise, it means he's doing more kilometres.

Oh, and tell me where I made something up.


You made up the 30 - 70% figure and suggested it covered all cases.

If the rider can't keep up with the club on an ordinary bike, he won't go out with them at all. If he goes out on his e-bike limited to 15.5mph motor help, he is likely to be working quite hard when above that speed (heavier bike, for a start) and still working below a lot below 15.5mph, as the motor won't push if you don't.

It's impossible to know if an e-bike rider does more or less work than when riding an ordinary bike. Work is effort X time doing it. There are many factors that influence both (speed, bike weight, terrain) including the psychological factor of, "Shall I go out cycling at all when I don't quite feel up to doing so on an ordinary bike".

Why not try a significant ride on one yourself? At least you'll then have some direct experience-based understanding of what they offer in help, how hard you still have to push yourself, what the extra weight of an e-bike does, etcetera.

Cugel

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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclist's

Postby Cunobelin » 16 Aug 2019, 5:55pm

There are those who just have a hatred for e-bikes.

My MiL stopped cycling, and we bought her an early e-bike (Zzap Electricruiser) that kept her on the road for another 12 years.

Doesn't matter whether the bike did 95% of the work, that is a lot more exercise than she would have got without it

Then take all those looking at commuting by e-bike as opposed to cars. Even again if 95% of work is done by the bike then it is still more than driving.

There is also the assumption that they are used in any particular power mode.

I know that on my wife's trike, we would use about 10% at the start of the day, and probably about 50% for the midsection. It was only at the end of the day when she was tiring that we would use anything over 50% assistance.

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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclist's

Postby horizon » 16 Aug 2019, 6:01pm

kwackers wrote:
horizon wrote:That 42 miles has to be motorised really simply because of the time and energy that is required for work. There was a thread on here recently quoting similar distances and I came down on the side of using a small car. So while and ebike is to be marvelled at, train or car are justified. For me the argument is about when an unpowered bike could do it (e.g your ride to the station).



You seem to completely ignore the ability of e-bikes to enable cycling when it would otherwise be difficult or impractical and turn it into an argument about whether an e-bike is a simple replacement for an ordinary bike.

The study seems to suggest e-bikes enable cycle use not replace it and that's my experience.


Actually I was being sympathetic to people who need to do a long commute (for whatever reason). If they manage it by ebike, even better but I don't see that as replacing a bike, I see it as replacing the car. On the thread I alluded to, I think the OP was advised that a 20 mile ebike ride (both ways) would be very difficult in winter.

So we actually agree - apologies for my not being clear.
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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclist's

Postby horizon » 16 Aug 2019, 6:04pm

Cunobelin wrote:There are those who just have a hatred for e-bikes.



Certainly not I and I hope that doesn't come across in my posts on the subject. I do have reservations about them but that is more on a philosophical level than a practical one.
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PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclist's

Postby Cunobelin » 17 Aug 2019, 5:55am

horizon wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:There are those who just have a hatred for e-bikes.



Certainly not I and I hope that doesn't come across in my posts on the subject. I do have reservations about them but that is more on a philosophical level than a practical one.


I was not referring to yourself.

There are a few who, who with no experience of the genre have been fairly malicious in their "reasons" for them being banned, restricted to minimal speeds and other variations

In your case, I would rather use the word "healthy skepticism"

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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclist's

Postby reohn2 » 17 Aug 2019, 8:59am

horizon wrote:Actually I was being sympathetic to people who need to do a long commute (for whatever reason). If they manage it by ebike, even better but I don't see that as replacing a bike, I see it as replacing the car.........


If only the myopic zealots in our midst could take off their blinkers and see a wider world before them :roll: ......
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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclists

Postby Audax67 » 17 Aug 2019, 10:55am

Cugel wrote:
Audax67 wrote:
Cugel wrote:
The 70 - 30% of push still done by the e-cyclist themselves is still a lot more than the zero push done because they wouldn't otherwise ride any kind of unassisted bike.

The 30 - 70% you mention is something of a handy guess to support your case, though. Last December I went out on the Christmas club run on the ladywife's e-bike, a mere 48 miles but plenty climbing and at a fair lick as the fast lads were out with we olepharts. I used between 10 & 15% of the battery, being able to keep up sans-motor on all but the steeper bits, where the motor meant the fast lads didn't have to wait for me at the top. Most of the ride was above 15.5mph anyway, so no possibility of motor assistance.

You purists (or is it puritans)! Why denigrate something you have no personal experience of by making-up-stuff?

Cugel


30-70% push is around what our club prez uses on his electric steed. He gets home with <10% left.

But in any case I was thinking about the figures given in the article: 8.something km on the eBike vs 5.something on a normal bike does not imply that the eBike rider is getting more exercise, it means he's doing more kilometres.

Oh, and tell me where I made something up.


You made up the 30 - 70% figure and suggested it covered all cases.

If the rider can't keep up with the club on an ordinary bike, he won't go out with them at all. If he goes out on his e-bike limited to 15.5mph motor help, he is likely to be working quite hard when above that speed (heavier bike, for a start) and still working below a lot below 15.5mph, as the motor won't push if you don't.

It's impossible to know if an e-bike rider does more or less work than when riding an ordinary bike. Work is effort X time doing it. There are many factors that influence both (speed, bike weight, terrain) including the psychological factor of, "Shall I go out cycling at all when I don't quite feel up to doing so on an ordinary bike".

Why not try a significant ride on one yourself? At least you'll then have some direct experience-based understanding of what they offer in help, how hard you still have to push yourself, what the extra weight of an e-bike does, etcetera.

Cugel


The eBikes I know of (sample of 2) have n levels of assistance: 30-70 is more or less representative, particularly of the one ridden by the chum in question. 0% on his 22-kilo steed is available but not realistically.

Another couple of my chums switched to eBikes because most of their club had, and the rides had become too fast for them to keep up. I no longer go on my own club's group rides because our prez sets up the routes - his latest was 92 km with just shy of 2000 metres of climbing, which I can't handle. Because of his bloody battery they're never longer than that, whereas I like doing long rides. When I go out just with him he dozes along on the flat at around 20 kph to conserve power, so that I have to stop & wait every ten minutes, but on hills he goes droning on past and hangs about at the top. It's irritating.

I dare say that in a year or two I'll have to succumb myself, but if I do I'll try and adapt my current bike and use minimal extra oomph. I'll still want to do 200k rides, though.
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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclists

Postby Cugel » 17 Aug 2019, 12:11pm

Audax67 wrote:
Cugel wrote:
Audax67 wrote:
30-70% push is around what our club prez uses on his electric steed. He gets home with <10% left.

But in any case I was thinking about the figures given in the article: 8.something km on the eBike vs 5.something on a normal bike does not imply that the eBike rider is getting more exercise, it means he's doing more kilometres.

Oh, and tell me where I made something up.


You made up the 30 - 70% figure and suggested it covered all cases.

If the rider can't keep up with the club on an ordinary bike, he won't go out with them at all. If he goes out on his e-bike limited to 15.5mph motor help, he is likely to be working quite hard when above that speed (heavier bike, for a start) and still working below a lot below 15.5mph, as the motor won't push if you don't.

It's impossible to know if an e-bike rider does more or less work than when riding an ordinary bike. Work is effort X time doing it. There are many factors that influence both (speed, bike weight, terrain) including the psychological factor of, "Shall I go out cycling at all when I don't quite feel up to doing so on an ordinary bike".

Why not try a significant ride on one yourself? At least you'll then have some direct experience-based understanding of what they offer in help, how hard you still have to push yourself, what the extra weight of an e-bike does, etcetera.

Cugel


The eBikes I know of (sample of 2) have n levels of assistance: 30-70 is more or less representative, particularly of the one ridden by the chum in question. 0% on his 22-kilo steed is available but not realistically.

Another couple of my chums switched to eBikes because most of their club had, and the rides had become too fast for them to keep up. I no longer go on my own club's group rides because our prez sets up the routes - his latest was 92 km with just shy of 2000 metres of climbing, which I can't handle. Because of his bloody battery they're never longer than that, whereas I like doing long rides. When I go out just with him he dozes along on the flat at around 20 kph to conserve power, so that I have to stop & wait every ten minutes, but on hills he goes droning on past and hangs about at the top. It's irritating.

I dare say that in a year or two I'll have to succumb myself, but if I do I'll try and adapt my current bike and use minimal extra oomph. I'll still want to do 200k rides, though.


It sounds like a human problem rather than an e-bike problem. Why can't you all in the club adapt to each other and go for a ride (on whatever type of bike you choose) in a fashion allowing you all to stay together, up hill, down dale and on the flat? After all, that's the general idea of riding together. There can still be a pace at which some find it easier than others - as long as you all stay together and occasionally allow the lad dropping off the back to catch up via a slowing of the pace. Just club good manners, really.

If you want to go at your own "natural" pace at all times then rides alone are going to be appropriate, e-bike or otherwise.

It does surprise me, though, that your club has so many members with e-bikes. No one in the club I was in had one as they regarded themselves as a racing club, primarily, even though they do slower rides (than race pace) of various kinds for various sub-groups, especially we olepharts. Even the 80 year old doesn't have an e-bike.

But when I went out on my single e-bike ride with them aboard the ladywife's e-bike, as a one-off experiment, it did mean that I could keep up with the fast lads on the steeper hills so they didn't have to wait (for me at least) at the top. I didn't go storming ahead, though. What would be the point? If I were to ride an e-bike all the time in a club I'd be using it to come up to the general pace of the group. not to exceed it.

Club riding does seem to vary across different clubs, though. This club I rode in (until I moved to Wales) generally stayed together but did allow members a "natural" pace up the steep hills with a wait at the top for the slower lads & lasses. And there was always a sprint for the village signs of note. I was aware of another local club (who never raced, with just a few doing the odd sportive) in which the various rides were often scattered over half a mile, with stragglers abandoned on occasion. That was due to poor organisation and too many infantile egos, not the types of bike being ridden.

Cugel

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Re: E-bike riders get more exercise than regular cyclist's

Postby Audax67 » 17 Aug 2019, 2:44pm

As you say, it's mostly a human problem. Ours is a small cycle-touring club, with a spread of ages from ~40 to over 70 (me), and these days it's hard to get a homogeneous group together. No-one else in the club likes to do long distances,* while I do not much enjoy toiling up hills through forest: much as I love trees, I like a good view when I'm climbing. It's OK down in the Vosges mountains where there's a view at the top, but we're in the Vosges du Nord, and forest is pretty well it.

The other club I mentioned does have a lot of eBikes. My old PBP 2007 partner & his wife joined after a bust-up with our prez. That club was once the more-aged contingent of a larger club, and they split off after a disagreement. 18 months after my old chum joined almost all of them were on eBikes (creaky knees, hearts, tin hips etc...) so chum & missus went electric to keep up.

My own club has just two eBikes but our motorized prez sets the routes, and he collects cols.

* this may seem strange, given that we're a cycle-touring club. In France there is the FFC, the Fédération Française de Cyclisme, and the FFCT, the Fédération Française de Cyclotourisme (now known as the FFV or Fédération Française du Vélo after a beer-hall putsch). The FFC governs everything competitive, the FFCT every other kind of cycling, including us.
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Re: E-bike riders get nore exercise than regular cyclist's

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Aug 2019, 5:29pm

Are there any flat bits in Departement 67, or only hills & forests?
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