Nomad/Bafang?

[billym444]

so as i suspect theres no such thing as BBS01 ETM kit, but i dont think they are still a 36v 350 or 500 rebadged. that could explane the higher 100 n/m. anyway ive asked my supplyer to look into the ETM kits as i can find any for sale else where.

[willcee]

That 100 n/m i mentioned is not std... I think most 250 's are usually rated by Bafang at around 40/50 n/m.. you know their biggy the 1k item is rated at 160 afaik... I see they are building De Rosa new Road E machine with the new integrated Bafang motor, no details but the frame is very similar to an item i have seen on the ali express site..will

[hemo]

Darren at Brighton ebikes sells the 25a ETM version and is the areas specialised BBS fitter. The copper windings will be different as well a software programming.

[billym444]

im pretty sure i read and i could be wrong the 36v 500w is more heavy duty and can run at 25a. so ive no doubt as not one other place seems to sell or list the ETM. that all an ETMN is either a rebadged 500w (easy) or just but some of the 500w enternals inside. restrcked to 15.5mph. no one would know the diffrence and it would have loads more tourque.

if i had a 250w ETM i would run in against a 500w on two idenical bikes and would have little doubt the run the same. dont get me wrong not saying anything wrong with the ETM idea, even if it is a rebadged 500w. i do more 750w than any other size. i think that the rule is correct at 15.5mph but the watt restriction is silly as it limits the hill climbing ability.

[hemo]

The difference over the BBSO1B ETM and the BBS01B 500w is legality one is factory marked 250w the other isn't. Apart form the factory/manufacturers marking in reality there is no way that the plod can test their rating.

http://www.brightonebikes.co.uk/store/p112/Bafang®_BBS01B-ETM_36V_250W_motor_kit_%28DPC-18_display%29_with_Samsung_35E_cell_36V_14Ah_downtube_battery.html

[arnsider]

Okay! So we've dealt with the technical issues of motor output and identity markings.
I am 17 stones and on a good day, I am fit for local climbs like Gummers Howe from Bowland Bridge, which is some two and a bit Kilometers, rising 220 meters, which gives it an overall 1/10 gradient. (It's actually a superb climb with magnificient summit views over the bottom end of Windermere, towards Coniston Old Man).
I couple this climb with a ride some 40 miles, catching the train for the short hop over the Kent Estuary.
Phew!!
Well, I need my Bafang to help me up this climb and have enough battery power in reserve to see me around this circuit.
( That's of course if the nice guard on the Northern Rail Lancaster service doesn't tumble I have an E Bike!!!)
Would a Bafang be up for this sort of use?

[kwackers]

Would a Bafang be up for this sort of use?

No problem, good thing about crank driven systems is they use the gears, if the gears are low enough they'll go up the side of a wall.

Battery size is the issue, how much help do you need for how long. The more effort you put in the smaller the battery.
I personally can't help with figuring that out.

As for trains, just put the battery in your bag. Without a battery it's just a bike.
(Not that I've ever had any issues on the rare occasions I've took it on a train)

[hemo]

Okay! So we've dealt with the technical issues of motor output and identity markings.
I am 17 stones and on a good day, I am fit for local climbs like Gummers Howe from Bowland Bridge, which is some two and a bit Kilometers, rising 220 meters, which gives it an overall 1/10 gradient. (It's actually a superb climb with magnificient summit views over the bottom end of Windermere, towards Coniston Old Man).
I couple this climb with a ride some 40 miles, catching the train for the short hop over the Kent Estuary.
Phew!!
Well, I need my Bafang to help me up this climb and have enough battery power in reserve to see me around this circuit.
( That's of course if the nice guard on the Northern Rail Lancaster service doesn't tumble I have an E Bike!!!)
Would a Bafang be up for this sort of use?

Simple answer yes even the basic 250w 15a model will if gearing is correct.
A few figures;
250w 15a will output approx. 430w at the wheel in max assist level.
250w 25a approx. 720w at the wheel in max assist.
500w 25a same as 250 25a but can sustain the power longer.

Another solution is a TSDZ torque drive mid motor 48v 250w that way you get 33% more torque and for the same ah battery 33% more range.

[willcee]

Would it be capable?? .. yes ....I weigh about 8 kilos less. and even faced with wind on our way back for 15 miles and an average speed of between 14/16 I have power left after mileage in the high 30's.. and that includes a long quiet straight piece of maybe 3 miles where we do our best to see what's left in the power unit.. single file through and out with a mate on a 2018 GIANT E1 road bike .. and it claims 80n/m and thats before being hopped up... will

[billym444]

so as the 250w 25a and 500w 36v bafang are the same, then restricted to 15.5mph on the same bike the power would probably last the same, as there the same motor. as to the TSDZ torque drive mid motor 48v 250w i though they only did 350w up on 48v. never seen a 48v 250w. but will have a look.

[hemo]

so as the 250w 25a and 500w 36v bafang are the same, then restricted to 15.5mph on the same bike the power would probably last the same, as there the same motor. as to the TSDZ torque drive mid motor 48v 250w i though they only did 350w up on 48v. never seen a 48v 250w. but will have a look.

Woosh bikes (Southend) have a custom TSDZ product which is 48v 250w labelled to comply with regulations.
I personally don't think there is much between the ratings 250w - 500w and don't think testing can prove one way or the other.
The reason we don't see many 250w marked rated motors which are non OEM is due (I believe) to the large North American market where they like big numbers and won't touch anything rated 250w. To within reason anything marked 250w can sustain up to approx. 1000w (by use of a higher rated controller) just a case of using the power not to melt the motor.
The 250w is only a continuous rating used under testing to which a motor must not over heat at a continuous I hour usage, (somewhere) there is an upper temperature limit. Any un labelled 350, 500w motor tested under the same conditions would pass as 250w if it didn't exceed the temperature test.

As someone pointed out recently on another forum, Bosch/Yamaha and other brands have upped there game and slyly still sell there products as 250w. 40nm used to be their torque rating of the drives now most talk of 75 -100nm torque from their drives, an increase of 80+%. This figure must also mean the 250w power rating must increase and is probably nearer 450 - 500w, the testing must still show the drives don't hit the set temperature level for I hour continuous use set for testing so are still classed as 250w.
This extra torque means an increase in power/watts.

The law is open to abuse and the rating/stamp the manufacturer places on the motor is taken as proof/gospel.

[hemo]

so as the 250w 25a and 500w 36v bafang are the same, then restricted to 15.5mph on the same bike the power would probably last the same.

Yes, in theory it should be no different.
A side by side test would need to be used to prove this is the case.

I still think the case is the 500w is marked so for the North American market whilst we have to have in Europe (and a lot of other worldly countries) a marked motor stating 250w, when in fact the likelihood is that they are the same motor.
Figures are massaged by all the manufacturers and they all know that their products can easily output 750 - 1000w of power temporary but still all comply with the 250w 1 hour continuous rating test and not overheat.

If the law actually stated that max power must not exceed 250w at any time then all legal ebikes would have controllers that are much less then the 15 -20a max rating that are currently used.
24v would be max 10.4a
36v would be max 6.95a
48v would be max 5.2a

[billym444]

so as far as i understood it, all the law states is the motor can be a max of 250w and speed must be restricted to 15.5mph. amps and volts dont matter. this is why these 250/500w and 250/1000w with the wire changeover or switch arnt legal as even restricted to 250 there still a 500w or 1000w motor.

anyway i like the idea and i could if wanted make someone a 48v 250w bafang with tones of torque LOL

but ive been playing today and have a solution for the on/off road power that i think will be legal. not sure 100% but should be.

[billym444]

"I still think the case is the 500w is marked so for the North American market whilst we have to have in Europe (and a lot of other worldly countries) a marked motor stating 250w, when in fact the likelihood is that they are the same motor."

i suspected this for a while, i think the bafang 350w and 500w are the same kit on 36v or 48v and its just software changes. i to would like one of thses MM G430.250 etm kits to test. what would be great is to see a picture of the markings on the bottom of the motor to see if there stampped or if its just a sticker. ? anybody go one.

[hemo]

so as far as i understood it, all the law states is the motor can be a max of 250w and speed must be restricted to 15.5mph. amps and volts dont matter. this is why these 250/500w and 250/1000w with the wire changeover or switch arnt legal as even restricted to 250 there still a 500w or 1000w motor.

anyway i like the idea and i could if wanted make someone a 48v 250w bafang with tones of torque LOL

but ive been playing today and have a solution for the on/off road power that i think will be legal. not sure 100% but should be.

The kits you mention (Cyclotricity ?) are illegal end of. The fact they are actually advertised as 250/500 or 1000w and have a switch to change the power isn't covered in EU or UK pedelecs reg's. A motor can only have one rating and that is up to 250w and not dual rating, as mentioned the 250w rating is a continuous 1 hour test rating. All motors can exceed this as in the reg's there are no stipulations regarding current applied. Voltage is defined (some where ) as not exceeding 48v, retailers and the industry read this a 48v nominal and not a max voltage as again the wording isn't explicit.